Friday, August 27, 2010

pastor.tice has left a new comment on your post "Adam's Rib from Pastor Tice":

pastor.tice has left a new comment on your post "Adam's Rib from Pastor Tice":
It has been the scholarly consensus for quite some time that diachronic reading is not a legitimate approach to an ancient text. What the word means 3500 years later has no bearing on how it is used in 1400 BCE. The synchronic approach is favored (see James Barr and Stanley Porter's works on this), and there is no extant example of צלע meaning "cell" in the 13th Century BCE. There is a Greek word in the New Testament which, in modern Greek, means "bus stop;" are we to read it thus when we read the Bible today? Absolutely absurd! We read the ancient text the way the ancients understood it.
Every text has to mean something in its original context; it can't mean nothing to the author and original audience. And, it certainly didn't mean "cell" to the common Hebrew hearing Moses' words on the plains of Moab waiting to cross over into the Promised Land. But, even if they did have 20th century knowledge in the 14th Century BCE... how does Blizzard's reading change what the text means? The surrounding context makes it incontrovertibly clear that Adam and Eve parented children. In order to do that, they had to be a man and a woman. The Edenic family unit, no matter how you read צלע, was an איש (man) and a אשה (woman).

Never even a hint to any concern about Adam and Even having children (though their children had sex with each other to make babies) the word is rib can be cell. Make the woman from it we can almost do today, we so far as we know publically can only make copies (clones) God made a woman from the DNA. Now it is time to be stupid. mommy and daddy had sex and had a baby. duh! The RIB already said cell meaning DNA so we today know God made Adam from the DUST but Eve from DNA in that rib. Today cloned goats can have babies too. God wrote the DNA when he made Adam from the Dust. this is modern Knowledge. Humans are given authority to learn all things, God did not say DON”T figure out how I made EVE he said Knowledge will increase. This means we know things that Moses could never even have dream about God given or otherwise probably.  If you only were reasonable I would not have to play these stupid games. Why don’t you  spend a few day browsing the internet to find what ever you can about Adam’s Rib. Sometimes I find things fast other times I can’t find anything to great frustration, but then another day page after page. The internet is quite a tool and it can be nuts. i just don’t ever bookmark of save links, not my way. I read it and know it, most of the time I can find it again, but sometimes it is really hard. So in looking for Adam’s rib it is like plumbing problems one trip to the store is unlikely to fix the problem. If you go to your favorite source you will get your favorite answers. If you determine to find DNA you will find that too.

You will have to ask Roy Blizzard however he maybe dead now I have not heard  him for many years. Now let me get one thing clear to start hear I know you from nobody, you have no credential at all and so I must lean to those I know and seen their credentials. Roy spoke for many years on TBN. I watched him often. There i s not a hint of doubt in my mind he is expert. TBN sure loved him. during those years he was often guest on Praise the Lord. I would not if I were  you make it a habit to judge someone  you don't know. As for Rib being a Cell and your attempt to dis-credit it shows me you did not read what I wrote or did not understand it. I will try again. God is smarter than you. He sent men he inspired to write. We now call that the Bible. Guarantee you every person that originally wrote the Bible had no idea about today though God showed them pretty detailed stuff and maybe far more detail than they knew  how to write. That does not matter what they knew or did not know. God's is NOW for us and so he wrote in a manner we would understand where in the days it was written the writers could not have a clue about. For 2000 years Christian have tried to explain what the Bible is talking about for the Last days. Some were a little right many were very wrong. But who cares your semantics what is more important is there are so many Christians putting there 2 cents worth in that searching through them can present a pattern that puts pieces of the puzzle together. MY gift from God is putting pieces of the puzzle together. The vast source of info (meaning from God to Christians and researchers  and Bible scholars have info others don't have) you don't have info I have. My website gives you details on my  background. I on't see a link to yours so what makes you think you have a word to say? So far your explanation don't jive. I know God tells ancient people things they write down that can't be known till Israel became a nation. Then still tons can't be known till the 90s and still more tons can't be known till a couple years ago. Today things are happening that makes even more Bible that could not be known known today. There is so  much that is not known today that will be known soon. I know stuff that is going to happen that is Bible that won't be accepted for some years to come. I am not impress at you explanation so far. You may not believe is Bible code, I don't say they are real, but the evidence is scary accurate to me. If true or not I believe God inspired the Bible and so what is written as we often hear is the Living WORD. No writer could know Bible Code and it is only high tech that makes it possible to find. True or not it is amazing anyway and God would not have a problem writing in code in his word the record of pretty much everything. There is more CELL also means hard drive. God created hard drives in our bodies. If Jesus were not coming back so soon I think science could decode human hard drive. This means everything any human sees is recoded. God says the BOOKS will be opened. WHAT BOOKS? God has a library in Heaven. Who is writing it all down so all our life can be open for the works we done? It is more simple than that crude collection of data as angels writing books or what ever. God set auto record mode in our DNA chips as it were. at some point he will unlock those files. We are the books we can't alter them or edit them they are the books God talked about. Tell me how could Moses know. Trick involved God show Enoch more than most realize.  Source of very ancient info and writings say Enoch was shown things such as how the Universe works. What I am saying it this might not be so, but it is possible in the available writings and material associated with credible Bible related materials. I have read so much in my lifetime to not be surprise God is a lot more than we often give him credit for. Your words makes God very small and it seems a dummy or a magician. God does no magic, what  God does science can know and has learned much. That CELL confirm the Glory of God, your only a rib makes God a magician. The Hebrew give that HINT you need to come to admit it is possible it is a cell from that rib or you are way way looking the wrong direction. I can tell you in the Bible it hints to life on all the Solar System planets. Satan as Lucifer made that life (not created it) God destroyed it all we see that destruction results on all the Planets including earth. On Earth God started anew. But like the FLOOD saved Noah God allowed life from each of the planets to survive his destruction. Sounds wild. again when you are not feathered to a conditioned culture of Christianity you might be able to see things otherwise never could know. All the Bible sayings about the Glory of God and they worthiness of Jesus to be praise is not nice sayings and warm fuzzies to do in church. His Glory extend far beyond our comprehension and he does not give everyone the depth of his Glory. When you get into his Glory you will understand my words because no words can describe God's Glory effectively. So I am sorry I can't go with your attempt to make DNA not in Adam's rib. Hey great, we need people that is hammered into the word to keep us that are taken on rolly coaster rides of the Universe in the Holy Spirit, we may miss something seeing that Glory and go off tract. But you just simply can't trash CHAMBER a chamber has insides guts, the other Bible word has no guts. God made no mistake in using Chamber in his RIB word. So why are you fighting it? The least expected from you is ponder that idea since you cannot prove it is just a RIB unless it was the other rib word which it wasn't.

Adam's Rib from Pastor Tice

Why did God give Moses this word? and What does Da. 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. mean? It may well have meant to Moses a CELL anyway. There is plenty of info available to hint they are not a dumb as we think. God spent twice 40 days and 40 night with Moses on the mountain top and then in Moses' tent too. Fact is if you can't be sure, then why do many fuss with the Joke mockery God didn't make Adam and Steve. It is a FACT also whether it meant CELL or RIB the DNA was still there and the DNA did what it did and is doing today. It is just we can show it is possible God already told us about DNA.

Moses may have no clue about cells but God did. God could have told Moses use the other Bible word for rib, there can be no question with that other words as in can't mean anything else but the bone. But the word used you just can't get away from chamber. Now as I noted Roy Blizzard taught this not me. He was super on things, He was a Pre-Zola on TBN. And there are many sources that also says it. What you have done is limit God. Although the Bible is told of our day today and uncountable source try to explain it and we have no problems with lots of the explanations that Moses or any other Bible character would ever have a clue about, but we today have access to all knowledge as it were as Daniel said.

pastor.tice has left a new comment on your post "Third reply to ZOLA LEVITT ...":

The key to interpretation is authorial intent. What did it mean in the author's mind? Since Moses did not know about cells 3500 years ago when he wrote Genesis, "cell" (even if it is a modern meaning of צלע) can't possibly be included in the semantic domain for צלע in his generation (applying synchronic analysis). Projecting a modern meaning back onto an ancient text is a flawed approach. I'm afraid you're stuck with "rib" or "side."

Brian’s comment on arsenokoites and qadesh


Brian said...

I'm confused by your post. You say you are asking about the Hebrew word for "rib" (which is tzeila' in Gen. 2:21-22), but then identify the word as "qadesh and arsenokoites." Words do mot have meaning in isolation - only a range of meanings; it is the context in which they are used which determines their meaning in a particular usage.
צלע(tzeila'), according to BDB* p. 854, means [1]"rib, side;" [2] the rib of a hill; [3] side-chambers or cells of the Temple; [4] ribs of cedar and fir, i.e. planks, boards; [5] leaves of a door; [6] side of the ark.
TWOT* (p. 768) says it is used once for a man's side, once for the side of a hill, and elsewhere is an architectural term for the side of an edifice. The article continues, "Conceivably [in Gen. 2:21-22] this means that God took a good portion of Adam's side, since the man considers the woman to be 'bone of his bones' and 'flesh of his flesh'. This picture describes the intimacy between man and woman as they stand equal before God."
קדש (qadesh), according to BDB p. 873, means "temple-prostitute," always used in the context of pagan worship. This word does not occur in Genesis 2, but first appears in Genesis 38 - the Judah/Tamar narrative.
TWOT p. 788 adds, "In Gen. 38:21-22 the usage may be extended to refer to prostitution in general," not limited to just "the liscentiousness of Canaanite worship."
αρσενοκοιτες (arsenokoites), according to BDAG* p. 135, appears earliest in a vice list as "one who has intercourse with a man as with a woman," "a man who has intercourse with a person of his own sex." The entry continues, "Paul's striction against same-sex activity cannot be satisfactorily explained on the basis of temple prostitution... or limited to contract with boys for homoerotic service."
*BDB (Brown-Driver-Briggs) is the standard Hebrew reference, and BDAG (Bauer-Danker-Arndt-Gingrich) is the standard Greek reference. Both of these draw from contemporary sources outside the Bible as well as the Biblical record. Einspahr agrees with BDB. TWOT (Theological Wordbook of the OT) is also a scholarly standard.
I don't know how this plays into what you were looking for, but those are the usages contemporary to Biblical record.

August 27, 2010 8:11 AM

Brian said...

The Hebrew word for "rib" in Gen 2:21-22 is צלע (tzela), which literally means "side." Other uses include the side of a hill or building (BDB, TWOT).
The Hebrew word qadesh (קדש) means temple prostitute, always in the context of pagan worship, but may be extended to prostitution in general in Gen 38 (BDB, TWOT).
The Greek word arsenokoites (αρσενοκοιτης) means homosexuality not limited to temple prostitution or contract with boys for homoerotic service (BDAG).

August 27, 2010 8:20 AM

Reply to Brain's comment on arsenokoites and qadesh

I am sorry you are confused. Guess you are not that bright concerning the gay issue to be this confused. Those two words is in 7 of the 14 verses used against gays so what is there to be confused about? Because as you say they are in isolation, which they are not because they are only in 7 of the 14 verses in the anti-gay doctrine so exact sentence is an easy thing to find. There is no mystery to it.

YEP a CELL like Roy Blizzard said. I Moses' day they did not know what a cell was, we do today. Adam's rib we know biologically. So apply a chamber you would have to conclude a cell. This is not me it is Roy Blizzard and nother experts. Bible has a word that would mean flat out bone in the biological sense, it was not used here, but thanks for showing that the word really is cell. Tech issues as to a real rib is not significant accept to use for other analogies not related to construction of what ever tissues.

The intimacy is not specific and is obeying rules of speech to masses. A speaker does not speak to the minority when talking in a large group. The minority understands its application. Why should i have to explain these semantics to you? In the beginning has many things that are not later or now and we are tons different because it was not there in the beginning, but the Bible has after the beginning. Talking about gays can never get stuck in a time zone or else having sex with sibling should be just fine today right?

So you totally agree 5 of the 7 verses that use the word sodomite 100% means a form of prostitution? With main emphasis it is pagan male temple prostitutes as used in the Bible not out of Bible same time period other uses?

You blow it on NT uses of arsenokoites did you toss your expertise with the NT? click for details

"And you shall not lie with a man of lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man of those lying with woman..." (p)

3. "And you shall not lie with a man who has lyings with woman..." (g,p)

4. "And you, of those lying with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (p)

5. "And you, of lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

6. "And you, having lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

7. "And you shall not lie with a man (as you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

1. "And you shall not lie with a man (like you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man (while you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

8. "And you shall not lie in beds of woman with a man..." (g)

9. "And you shall not lie lyings of woman with a man..." (g)

10. "And you shall not lie with a man as a woman lies..." (g)

11. "And you shall not lie with a man as (one) lies with woman..." (g)

12. "And you shall not lie with a man as (you) lie with woman..." (g)

13. "And you shall not lie with a man as with woman..." (g)

This list is OT Lev. 18 and 20 How you decided it is NT arsenokoitesI am not sure but thanks as you connect NT sodomites with OT sodomites as yes they are the same and it was Paul’s full intention as both in Corinth and Rome every street corner had its fertility temple with its sodomites.

This is as your even say a man that in the past (and present) slept with women (had sex and enjoyed it) before doing the man with man thing. Going to fertility temple joining ritual orgies and sex with male prostitutes. Greeks used this word 76 time up to near the 15th century never hinted to gays. Christians used it 56 times no hint to gays either. This is documented so not guessing. The with boys issue is very specific and not Christian myth. In Corinth very wealthy men hired boys or young adults to act like lovers as a status symbol. As bad as pedophiles are this verse is not talking about them, catamites may not be all that easy to detect in ancient times, but a little research and you find what Paul was talking about. Now in Paul’s day there is no writing anywhere that is easy to get to see where Paul got any idea about real gays to condemn. Instead those ancient days shows real gays and not condemned, even that jesus spoke of real gays saying most world not accept his teaching on it. Example:

Paul sort of invented arsenokoites but it is strict and it is from male temple prostitute. Paul particularly had a huge problem. He kept seeing Hebrew men going to these fertility temples joining the ritual orgies. In these temples again no guess work too many studies showing many sodomite cut it off and dressed like women to help str8 men (most if not all recorded clients were married men regarding the Hebrew men going to these temples. One of Paul’s words representing fornication actually lists “male prostitute” not related to temples just ordinary. But, the word does not say if the man was gay (it wouldn’t matter still a prostitute) fact of Paul’s day there were few very few if any gay prostitutes. In Paul’s day it was not an issue where gays really needed a prostitutes. However, a fact male prostitute were plenty available for women in those days and well recorded. So trying to get arsenokoites to somehow include ordinary gays can’t be done. There are at least 9 Greek words for gays more like we see today. One is spelled differently but sound similar to arsenokoites but meant very different. Paul’s arsenokoites meant bottom line “male temple prostitute. Very related to Hebrew:

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.

This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin.

You input is very good thanks you, most of what you show is not showing gay is sin or talking about gays. One thing is sure with so many Bible versions and modern dictionaries for Bible it is a wonder still most of the Bible is fairly intact. However, of huge concern about modern version is their full background source that you do not find in their prefaces. All claim to be most accurate. ALL and I mean ALL modern version comes from Westcott and Hort’s translation. It became the official Church of England’s Bible where all modern versions comes from having depending on version 50,000 to 80,000 corruptions designed to subtly take Christ out of Jesus.. I call them satan counterfeit Bibles. The KJV being rejected by many even shunned is the only easily available Bible that is from the correct manuscripts. Two sets both in the 2nd century both have stories to tell. Westcott and Hort are far more evil than corrupt Bible translation. They created the Ghost Club, that not something good.

So many modern dictionary for Bible are mates to modern versions. They do not mate up to the original hand written copies of the origins. They are Johnny come latelys adding in modern definitions. Even the beloved Strong’s is a very different book than it was 40 years ago. However modern version or not no one has an excuse it all can be researched and studied and the actual meaning can be found when following any translation and not just the modern version of the dictionaryies.

I really appreciate your input. You did not particularly say you think gay is sin or not, if you are gay it will be mocked,, if you are str8 you might be pro-gay as it were. But yours adds to the credible meanings and shows an attempt to get the word meaning. Rare to see someone that thinks gay is sin go into the words like you did. Maybe this will help some understand what backup your mouth means when ask to explain how you get gays into the Bible. I still can’t image why so many that think gay is sin won’t even try to explain it



Thursday, August 26, 2010


I am sorry you miss-understood, guess i have to be more plain. Roy Blizzard pre-ZOLA on TBN on Praise the Lord showed Rib met CELL. Scientist, biologists and the like says DNA, genes, etc. People are cloning things, This is not from the Gay researchers thought many may know these facts it was TBN that brought this teaching via Roy. Homophobes say Adam and Steve not gays. Question assumption is you are the expert, tell me what you know about "Adam's Rib" Are you telling me you refuse to explain the Hebrew word for RIB? I wonder why you are so uptight about your expertise? Again, you with the "credence" thing. I never ask you to do anything other than use your expertise of a Bible word. I did not develop arguments I ask you to help by giving some important explanations/definition of Hebrew words. What better source of word meaning than from one like ZOLO Levitt Ministries. I never asked you to support anything about anything me. You have your belief that is what i asked for. If you say PLAIN READING this is what I asked for you to give to me the plain explanation you have based on your expertise I never ever even remotely ask you to bend my way.

I ask for ZOLA LEVITT's understanding via their supposed expert knowledge implies by TBN and HAL Lindsey (since it was his site I was looking that he uses you ask a link) Come on now if HAL uses you you got to be important RIGHT? " qadesh and arsenokoites" not a lot to ask for, but you can't give your own expert knowledge on these two Bible words. A non-educated Hillbilly can read a verse. I could have asked them to read it to me. But I wanted Hebrew word expert to tell me the ways it was used in Paul's and Moses' day. How can I force you to tell me what I want you to tell me. I asked for your vast understanding of Ancient Israel. What do you say? " You need to look elsewhere, I can't be any help to you " then give me a link to a Hebrew scholar that can help. maybe you aren't the expert TBN thinks you are, maybe Hal needs to re-think what link he puts on his site.


News Sources and Links

· Arutz7
Good news source from Israel


· Bible Prophecy Today

Christian Broadcasting Network

· Christian News Today


· DebKa
Political Analysis, Espionage, Terrorism, Security

· Drudge Report

· Fox News

· Global Jesus Christ Network

· Haaretz

· His Channel

· Israel Insider
Good source of up-to-minute news from Israel

· Israel Today

· Jack Kinsella

· Jerusalem Post

· Koenigs International News


· New York Post

· New York Times

· Olive Tree Ministries

· Omega Letter

· Prophecy Central

· Providing a central Internet site with helpful study topics on more than 50 key areas of interest. These topics typically list relevant Scripture References, Current Events and Links, and an excerpt from The Prophecy Puzzle.

· Prophecy Update

· Rapture Forums

· Rapture Ready

· World Net Daily

· Zola Levitt Ministries <-- Is this an error for Hal?

Are there other ministries you are faking out? Or is it your claim to Love is a lie? You love everyone except gays? You see the word gay and you freeze up and refuse to offer any of your God given life training to know the depths of Ancient Israel? You already sent a couple email so what is the hassle to add a tid bit of your knowledge about two words. Did you look at those words and find you can't explain it? That you saw they really mean what you did not think they mean? I mean if it really means "gays" I want to know. If you use a modern version lexicon that every other word is a non-Bible word like one ex-gay leader gave me. He said it was absolutely exact. The only thing exact about it is was from a very modern dictionary and it did not even have any meaning resembling Assemblies of God favorite (though that was years past, AOG now is NIV instead of KJV). My fantasy is this. You have gobs of ancient referring books and ancient language dictionaries filling shelves. You can pull out that modern version that is full of homosexual or you can get the book next to it with the (even you know) ancient meanings. If I were at your book shelf I would see the modern verses the ancient. you have both. You also know which are the real things verses which may be good for just a better angle and a meaning which is good, but when it deals with some topics it is so not real. And you know this otherwise my fantasy forces me to say you are a liar because no person of your caliber can not know.

From: Staff at ZLM []
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:10 AM
To: 'gaysforjesus647'
Subject: RE: what a strange reply from such a well known ministry

Believing that Scripture gives credence to relationships between Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve, I can't be any help to you. In any case, you've already developed your argument and your reasoning, and seem to want to use me to give credence to your propositions. You need to look elsewhere, because I do not support your vision and don't think a plain reading of Scripture does either. JSeif

Kristin Cole August 25 at 3:36pm Red State voter’s Guide


Kristin Cole August 25 at 3:36pm Report

For one, I didn't support Bush. He was one of those candidates that was the lesser of the two evils for me.

gays4jesus: Well a brownie button for you.

And its funny you bring up the sexually immoral military as I was married to a marine who cheated on me. My friend's daughter was married to a marine who used hookers and you don't have to tell me what dogs they are. But sexual perversity (homosexuality, beastiality, pedophilia etc) will always be taboo in our country.

gays4jesus: Yesterday CNN reported on Craigslist. She placed an ad in the adult section. Within 3 hours she had 15 calls for sex. Again, almost never does any pastor let alone Christian talk about str8 sexual immorality. 15 men in 3 hours? To this day I haven’t gone to Craigslist, just heard of it on the news. However, pint in fact. Someone like you won’t think about it even though you had firsthand experience as you mention. Homophobes loves to class gays with bestiality and peds. God is wonderful as I learn truths. FACT 97% of peds are str8 men. This number should be 90%. Ped in gays should be 10% but it is 3%. I had the records open otherwise confidential of 10s of 1000s of cases. I was given access to interview many peds too. Ped and beast is a human thing not an orientation. Your (homosexuality, beastiality, pedophilia etc) is like saying (heterosexuals, beastiality, pedophilia etc). Doesn’t make since. 700 million gays rare to find any into sex with animals.

So you can hear all you want about a straight guy cheating on his wife and he can still be a hero, say someone is a homosexual and he's already lost the battle. I get this.

gays4jesus: you don’t get it at all, your guide will not go into your candidate’s military sexual immorality voting issues. Nor would your pastor talk about it in sermons. Only reason you brought up your personal experience is because I told you about it. Point is that really is a rampant sexual evil unaddressed. There is a GREEN light to commit these sexual immorality with no consequence from Church. Only when a scandal is wanted will a politician be made public of his sex acts. Gays are living normal lives. Some go to hookers, some cheat. This is human str8 or gay. Gays have fewer choices till more recent times to meet more consistently as str8s meet. 700 years ago the Church banned gays from public so they had to develop a culture that made it look to otherwise moral sexual practices and immoral. If gays were found out often they would be kicked out of housing or jobs and families. They many of them had to find a way commonly terms “in the closet” this produce what seems to be acts that could fit normal sexual immorality like prostitution multi-partners etc. Whether you accept it or not let me give you a FACT the sexual immorality charge for acts done by gays resulting from the persecution of Christian will be charged to the CHURCH not the gay person. Don’t believe this if you like but soon enough you will know. Again you do not get this. All you get is you know it is true, but you can’t comprehend the silent surrounding str8 sexual immorality.

BUT all sexual immorality is sin, no matter if you are straight or gay, the bible says so. No matter what man says, he cannot change the word of God.

gays4jesus: However, everything is forgiven when you accept Jesus’ work on the Cross (if you go off on a tantrum, this means to you I am saying go and sin all the more, you already not even trying to communicate anything other than your rampant hatred of gays). As I explained above, Church forced sexual immorality is counted against the Church. Sort of an Abraham thing, God counted it righteousness. Meaning Gays weren’t defiling sexually but forced by the church to be in secret. Horrible horrible horrible of the Church. You are right no matter how you want to say people means men the Hebrew still means men women and children Gen. 19:4. If the Bible says arsenokoites or qadesh it sill means “male temple prostitute” But the Church did accept the WORD to be changed in 1946 Two Greek words were removed from 1 Cor. 6:9 and a English word was inserted. This English word does have about 9 Greek words of Paul’s day that could mean the same, but they were not used instead arsenokoites was used drived from qadesh which meant in Paul’s day and Moses’ day “male temple prostitute”

If every person on this earth was to turn gay, it wouldn't make it right in God's eyes.

gays4jesus: What if games are not allowed in the impossible field. 10% were and are gay, what if can’t change that.

It is still sin.

gays4jesus: Yes sin is sin. To say gay is sin means you need to show how you get gays into these verses:

1) Gen 19:4-5 gang rape, murder, victims would have been angels, all the boys all the grandpas all men all the people, later Lot's Daughter's raped him and had his babies

2) Gen 22:2 Rib means "Cell from that Rib" Steve is in the DNA (from TBN's well used Hebrew scholar years ago. Not my idea)

3) Judg 19:22 rarely used gang rape, murder, but victim was opposite sex.

4) Deut 23:17 don't be a male temple prostitute, (15 female temple prostitute next verse or 2)

5) IKing 14:24 rarely used male temple prostitute, Lord cast out before Hebrew came

6) IKing 15:12 rarely used male temple prostitute, (how can gays be removed, you don't even know who is gay)

7) IKing 22:46 rarely used male temple prostitute, (left over sodomite removed, if gay how?)

8) II Ki 23:7 rarely used male temple prostitute, (sodomite whore house removed, built against temple of God)

9) Lev 18:22 acts done in worshipping other gods, not comparing loving, caring , long term relationships, woman is a likely adulteress, Hebrew word for man "practicing str8 man"

10) Lev 20:13 acts done in worshipping other gods, not comparing loving, caring , long term relationships, woman is a likely adulteress, Hebrew word for man "practicing str8 man"

11) Rom 1:27-28 Should be 18-32. adults turned from God to gods, God changed them, results visible evil behavior (they went to ritual fertility orgies), 28-32 gays are opposite these verses.

12) 1 Cor 6: 9 expensive call boy and male temple prostitute, 1946 original Greek removed, meant masturbation before 1850,

13) 1 Tim 1:10 male temple prostitute,

14) Jude 1:7 general sexual immorally of Sodom and Gomorrah with no hint of sexual orientation ( best word in Greek meaning "male prostitute" but these were gigolos rare for gay prostitutes in those days).

So, I understand the argument you are trying to make but you can't justify one sin because of another.

gays4jesus: If you care to check it is people like you that are justifying your hatred and conditioning about gays. I always plead with homophobes to show me how they get gays into the above verse. Example:

From: Staff at ZLM []
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:10 AM
To: 'gaysforjesus647'
Subject: RE: what a strange reply from such a well known ministry

Believing that Scripture gives credence to relationships between Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve, I can't be any help to you. In any case, you've already developed your argument and your reasoning, and seem to want to use me to give credence to your propositions. You need to look elsewhere, because I do not support your vision and don't think a plain reading of Scripture does either. JSeif

From: Staff at ZLM []
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 2:16 PM
To: 'gaysforjesus647'
Subject: RE: Info involving research showing the Bible really condemns gays

I don't understand homosexuality nor what prompts it. I do know from nature and Scripture, however, that the experience deviates from the norm, and that the Hebrew word "sin" means to "miss the mark"--thus to deviate. Seems to me that you've spent a lot of time and energy to both develop and articulate your argument. You'll need to look elsewhere to find someone else to give legitimacy to your innovative reworking of the biblical text and to engage you in debate over it, however. Your logic doesn't abide with me JSeif

I am sure you have heard of ZOLO If experts on ancient Hebrew and one of TBN’s most popular authority on those ancient times can’t even take time to show how they get gays into the Bible other than the same rhetoric of homophobes as you can read. I asked reasonable for his expertise to show me how to Gays are in the verses used. Don’t you think seeking expert knowledge is not justifying but searching for truth. The withholding of truth is the evil. And ZOLO with holds truth. If they are really ignorant what a shame of such a ministry giving so much to the TBN and DAYSTAR world. I wonder if you contacted ZOLO as a str8 homophobe that you are if he would do a stud for you? Ten you could pass it on to me.

Justifying would mean that search for ways to make a truth a lie. I was in the first round f the modern era of truth about gays. I spent many years in Christian chat room (50 often in the room) with several chat names in several rooms at the same time. When my name “gays4jesus” is in a chartroom suddenly it is my room and I am the boss controller. Meaning all attack me telling me I am going to hell and worse as homophobes do. This means my name generates a ministry to homophobes. (this name was given to me by God story behind it) Many years later other gay Christian began openly being in Christian rooms as well as non-Christians. I can go in lots of detail about the wonderful Christians from church pews everywhere do when they sit behind a keyboard and can put their 2 cents worth in. Don’t want to brag but I am the first and I am still there in the chat rooms. And still often the main figure there. What I say about what I learned. That you could find only in some MCCs or few places that were getting behind the science works of study and research from decades before I was telling in Christian Chartrooms. Truth is truth I certainly cannot and will not take credit for changing the view of the world. What I can do is say when you seek truth, truth will be found and truth cannot be changed, so it is not me with mis-inform data, but people studying and finding the same facts “gay is not sin” You can’t tell me I have such influence even being the most heard through the Christian chat world (daily for hours in three major almost only available large chatting services)(BBSs before the Internet. That I made everyone think gay is not sin so today we are adding up states to have legal gay marriage. NOPE. Truth, search and you will find it. Generally what I was saying early 80s is common today in pro-gay materials that is changing from my early days of 0% accepting gays to the now 60% on most issues about gays and even now the Marriage issue is catching up with that 60%. Who is justifying?

And no, you would rarely find a candidate fighting against straight immorality because so many of them have extramarital affairs.

gays4jesus: And what church is making that an issue in the pulpit? Red state blue state all the same. Dobson top man, Alaska, the list of RED STATE Republican caught is impressive, not long ago I crossed a site that listed all the famous or recent times, Sure lots of republicans. Ted Haggard though still closeted a little really is fabulous, he got it great, the close walk with Jesus His infamous moment made him a better speaker from pro-gay than a lot of well-versed gay experts. Funny how he won’t really say it sin or not he sure has changed from his extreme homophobia from the pulpit before. Brant Baker are you old enough to know about him? Paul Crouch tried to erase him from the Christian record. Benny Hinn at Paul’s orders basically stole Brant’s style ministry in a lot of ways. Brant was a closets Faith Healing ministry that started the trend of modern service along with Ronnie Frisbee where the term “Jesus Freak” began. Vineyard Church one years in its list of top saying of event for each year used his phrase “Come Holy Spirit” this became mainstream for charismatic churches till this day. Both were gay. Both were kicked out once that was learned. Tell how immoral is it for all the people that did not get miraculously healed. And why do as it were all the Church even and especially the charismatic (Pentecostal) churches owe their style to two gays to boot them out and purposely erase their names from the Christen record. Thank God many out there had left overs and now you can find lots of info about both of them.

Where is the outcry against this immorality and red state sexual immorality of so many politicians. Believe me I am not standing up for blue states. My ministry is a prophecy last days ministry, I talk about the end times and how we got here. RED or Blues same agenda different style, same team member and no on get to vote a winner, Voting makes us feel good (even me) but it does not get anyone elected. From America’s beginning it is been a country preparing to be a major player to get a one world government (antichrist’s kingdom) I will vote and wish and hope all the games we do in who we would rather have in office, but dictatorship is a blink away at any given moment. That the real immorality, not a gay couple in love with each other.

But like I said, sexual perversity is still taboo (thankfully) in our society even though there is so much of it and the people don't want it paraded in front of their families.

gays4jesus: Women in the early 1900s got to vote, blacks had to use black rest rooms, divorce unacceptable. Mixed marriage and dating it was extremely un acceptable to be caught kissing in sight of others. We can list a lot of taboos (Cuba other gods term). Marriage today is not acceptable in Jesus’ day. No partner choice and it was for family profit also the woman was property and like a slave. Greek words define marriage with a combination of words slave and property were two ways of defining marriage. Mary was 13 when pregnant with Jesus, Adam and Eve’s children sex and babies was the way. Long time it was 1st cousins, then same tribe. Slave concubines legal through the 11th century Christian legal. Baby making nearly the LAW for Christians for 1000s. Love and sex for pleasure legal only with mistresses and concubines and slaves. Today’s marriage is direct from pagan fertility worship. Pastor is the pagan god priest. Receptions direct link to pagan fertility rituals. In the 12th century so many pagan became Christians that their customs merged in and often superseded Christian customs. In the Bible all marriage changes (evolved marriage) never any hint what so ever from God as breaking away from his marriage law. You can see some clues to hints of what is customs and customs changes. 2010AD is not how you explain marriage or how you get to the marriage. Bible is in ancient words and modern words have evolved with many different meanings. For the most part the Bible is simple enough, but if you want to get into specifics and issues then it is about a complicated as you can get, but still in that complexity it has the most resources to study than any other book and today to most un educated person has access to all knowledge through the internet. Which bring issues on credibility of sources, but advantage of many sources to filter out errors. This is not a one evening’s reading period. The gay issue involves 700 million gays, their parents and siblings, co-workers, and friends and neighbors effecting most people on Earth. Myth, taboos, customs, conditioning, false doctrines and much more has to be sifted through to reach many truths. God has provided other ways and set times to hit people’s heart that won’t study when the point fingers. Huge numbers of Christians are going to turn their backs on Jesus and hate him because customs taboos traditions and conditionings they favor more., I don’t care if you don’t want family members to see gays kissing on the street. I do care however about the 6 million foreign troops that already to break your door down and rape you and your daughter in front of your husband before hauling you all separated for ever to re-education camps. I can drive about 15 minutes to such a camp near my home. You will miss the wrath of God but not what is called the wrath of Jesus by Perry Stone (he think you will miss both I DON’T). Sorry but like I said I am a Last Days TV preacher I know my stuff and I know the preparation that has been made to do what I am telling you. You will not be removed from Earth before ALL this tons of Preparation for you is not fulfilled. Satan has not spent 5000 years to blink and you are gone so he has to use it all on brand new Christians that magically figure out you were right and they got LEFT BEHIND. By the way that author had 75 million of his debt paid for by Rev. Moon and he sat on as chairman of the Board for Moon. Is there something going on? Tzu Chi Temple Hualien, Taiwan I would have never planned or thought about or having a clue about this temple. All I knew was I knew about one world religion UR. UN accepted religion as it were. But on vacation my host family took me here as part of touring the Island. Unknown reason and perfect English speaking monk saw me and took interests. Unknown reason began telling me details of their mission. Inside this temple is state of the art tech, a button could be pushed to seat and additional 5000 to the already 15000 seat temple. He showed me a mural a 100 feet long depicting all religions and explain their mission is to join all religions into partners for common good and prayer. That they already had headquarters in many if not most major cities. Including mine Seattle. I only heard about this sort of one world religion effort and now I had been given a tour details about one. My life is full of these unexpected things. I figure God wants me to know because I tell it on my TV programs and websites. I got a tons firsthand knowledge and not all that peaceful for upcoming events that effect all Christians. And this is pre-rapture stuff. I am for your family Your heart needs to be able to handle something that could be as bad as it gets. Survival rate to reach the Rapture is not all that much in your favor. Amazing miracles will keep many Christians alive and nothing you can do to earn this. God is not looking for most faithful or most obedient. On the surface and your behaviors and thoughts would never warrants it, but that is not how God decides who gets to the Rapture. You can play games what is sexual perversity but that is not going to help your family, anti-christ is not concerned about your family and Christians have been eaten by lions and killed in masses no matter their prayers. The Bible says standfast, holdfast, persevere to the end. Lots of promises that miracles will abound and they will but the guarantee is we got 7 years coming and Christians gets 3.5 of them plus maybe 75 more days. It will be God has to cut short least all perish.

Honestly, do you see straight people in parades with I'm straight and proud signs? I think the military motto, don't ask don't tell keeps people comfortable.

gays4jesus: 1967 Catholic gays God graphed back into the Church (Dignity) 1968 God graphed Protestant gays back into the Church (MCC) 1969 God began the gay rights secular movement. This is not random acts but specific events and periods to prepare for the coming tribulation period and to keep those Christians that that fall away with the way back before it’s too late. The Bible it not a fairy tale. It is a book of coming events and gets pretty specific and God is not someone on a chair approving or disapproving. Eternity is complex and far reaching. Ask the Holy Spirit to take you on a tour its cool. Your comments are naïve limited for me it is hard to get so low turning off all things God. There is a bigger picture of why things happen and detonations to reach. Parades are generally not Christian. Secular come on now how many chants of secular slogans do you get involved with. Christians have issues with pride, proud. So what let the secular do its thing. I bet you think gays are let the women kill her baby, sorry secular gay slogans like str8 same thing is not Christian and certain not my Pentecostal walk with Jesus notions. Yes there are I am str8 and proud signs. In parades just watch any media they are going to find the one float maybe more some gay parades are huge may have nearly naked men and bull dykes no tops. To me disgusting, but not an issue. I was chief atheist once, how about you? I was 27 when I accepted Jesus how about you? I did not accept Jesus just because I did not believe there was any god or did any Christian come to me to tell me about Jesus. Who do you suppose what able to get me from beyond a doubt there is no god to be saying the sinner’s prayer with 100 other tears flowing like Niagara falls? It sure wasn’t satan as many homophobe say to me. See my testimony on my website. Clinton did not want “don’t ask don’t tell” he wanted to lift the ban on gays. Way way too early for that so he compromised to the don’t ask thing. COMFORT is not the name of the game when it is about persecuting 700 million people. Comfort is a low priority. Often the only way to make people see is tear there comfort zone away. God is good at that.

Its when you see the masses, some naked, some dressed in S&M costumes parading down the streets with rainbow banners with I'm gay and proud on them, you want to lock your kids away, cover their eyes and move to another town.

gays4jesus: Repeat a float or two of almost naked. Most of the parade has your politician as grand marshals and you have many denominations represented, fire departments drive the trucks, then snuck in I suppose to wash is your hate in your face thrown in a naked and boobs(sorry no easier way to say it) But there is CHARLIE 1.5 hours every night every form of sex act mentioned and even with a pre-teen boy (now mid-teen) 2.5 men. Primetime. Vivid almost no imagination left daily str8 sexcapes multiple sex partners and now Jake do it all too. This is just one TV program. Hey sorry I think it a fun program to watch, besides showing so explicitly fairly common str8 sex behaviors. Over the decades it gets more lurid, but still all the same so why is once a year a float or two of flamboyant men putting it into your face mocking you back for your 100 times worse statement about gays. Maybe not you personally, but the you can’t know Jesus, you are going to hell, these are mild expressions from false doctrine against gays. Your kids may see you raped in front of them. Is that S&M enough? Again, I did not make this up, but I been to the camps, I seen the guillotines and much more, I got first hand info and threat from even Mossad, FBI once said they would protect me, a senator’s wife confirmed something’s to me. I rather you be frightened and shocked for a few nights so that at the time it happens to you you will have perhaps a course of action (be it I am ready to be with Jesus and believe Jesus and my children are in in hands, satan can kill the body not the spirit and soul). Have you even given it a thought even if some of the things you heard about really happen or are you living in a magical world no harm could come to you and yours? Hopefully and prayerfully you will not experience this stage and that God provided a tunnel to a safer haven missing it, but you won’t miss hearing about it happening to your neighbors and others. As a mother certainly protecting your kids is upmost on your list of things to do. It is your job your responsibly, but vaccination are used for a purpose (though these days maybe not really be vaccinations) point is you need to get cut so you can avoid this in the future and you know you don’t like it. Warning protecting won’t stop a cut it is part of life. What do you do with a cut, medicate and bandage it or leave it open? Do you tell your kid 10% chance of being gay, gay is sick and sin? Do you tell him why? After all you are telling him it is sin so you should know the a male temple prostitute can’t mean gay is sin so how are you telling him? Magic? “It just sin because it’s in the Bible”? You don’t have to give him a choice he is gay or he is not flat out. You just don’t have to lie about gays to try to make sure he turns out like you hating gays and use the Bible as a club (my cousin’s quote when news interviewed him he was district super intendant of Dignity of northern Cal and Nevada). You got a tough job being a mother, you can make a difference and not train your kids to be you condemn people and have no way to back up what you say. Today I hope you

u realize you won’t use a verse that says gang rape or male temple prostitute to condemn gays

Just my 2 cents. But if you are serious about Jesus, please reconsider your beliefs and follow the facts that are in the bible.

gays4jesus: Kristin Cole you sure are a homophobe to the bitter end of you message to me aren’t you? You know I am serious about Jesus. I got a ton of info about my walk I back up what I say. What you are saying is magically just accept gay is sin. No backup no proof, lots of lies, and horrific treatment by those that think gay is sin. The facts are male temple prostitutes and gang rapists and worse, fertility orgies to other gods. And you say this means gay is sin? Show me how you turn verses like these into gay is sin. Want to get into ex-gay ministry, I happen to know a lot about them, it you need to see if Jesus magically delivers gays or with a great deal of hard work do gays change. Again, not wanting to brag, but I got first hand experiences with exgay leader and ex-gays, not a few but in large numbers testimonies backgrounds etc. this is a Facebook link to the founder of Exodus International forerunner of the ex-gay ministries, I bet he would answer your questions directly. Also, how about ex-homophobes for sake of simplifying a name both these groups started around the same time mid-70s.

Take care.

gays4jesus: thanks been taking care and hopefully I was taking care of you. I may get blunt, time is short you may not come back again so I say it to touch a place that you will remember now or then.

Tony-Cara Rivera August 25 at 1:01pm Pastor


Tony-Cara Rivera August 25 at 1:01pm Report

My friend what in the world are you reading??? Do you not know what Romans 1 talk's about!!! Read the whole chapter my friend you are leading a lot people to Hell and there blood are on your hand's!!!!


18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. KJV

Now that I read it what? I guess you think a 65 year old Pentecostal (36 year background in the Assemblies of God) 27 years of preaching weekly on TV just means I don’t read the Bible? So strange how homophobes just love to assume. I bet you cannot give much background studying this issue. You ask me to read funny why don’t you read it? Verse 18 -23 has to mean something right? What do you think it means? It certainly appears Paul is talking about Hebrew adults that turned from GOD to gods right? So what did God do about it? Verses 24-25 “He gave them over” to what? Are you saying this is where str8 men became gay? Because they didn’t have the condition at first, meaning they could not have been having sex with the same sex up to then right? So you are telling me that 700 million of today’s gays as they grew up and became adults they first accepted Jesus then turned their backs on him and join Islam or Hinduism or some other religion? Islam in one radical group does expect to have 72 virgins in heaven, but this is str8 stuff.. There are some religion today that are into fertility sex. So before gays were gay they knew God and turned from him so God made them gay? Hmmmm. You see my 10s of 1000s of interviews over 36 years from my own ministry shows gay knew they were gay as children and rare any outside influence. Those the had become Christian never left it as adults (except because of Christian persecution and hatred from people like you). Verse 26-27? What does “burned in their lust” mean? Are you married? Or anyone in your family if you are not tell me about it. How did you meet your spouse? My assumption is you met someplace and began dating, during this dating you fell in love and after a time got married right? Now that you are married (or as you know the concept of love) how does it feel? When you have sex are you “burning in their lust”. Lust is a word you know with meaning and it is not designed for those in committed relationships, but for outside committed relationships. So if you know about love in a str8 couples life and you know applying burning in lust for one another is not what is happening. You somehow magically know that love between two people is wonderful especially if it is you and your spouse. Now in 26-27 are two Greek words “nature and natural” to make it simple they mean “seed and instinct” TODAY nature and natural does not mean like it did to Paul because Paul had no science to explain nature. What it meant to Paul is people that ordinarily had their married sex or any other equivalent (concubines were legal, sex with slave legal and other things we consider immoral were quite legal then and God apparently could care less because these things were discussed except as a fact David had hundreds of concubines and hundreds of wives and once his staff gave him a teenage girl for sex) God condemned David for adultery and sending Uriah to the frontlines. So what sort of thing was going on that Paul would use words that makes it go against nature? Gays were not going against their nature they were not str8 turned gay. 700 million gays today you can quickly learn gays are not str8 to start. Don’t confuse gays with bisexuals they are not bisexuals. Bisexuals is a whole another topic that is not easy to deal with. Gay did not turn gay. Gays do exactly what str8s do (meaning str8s that date and marry in the ordinary since, we are not talking rapists, prostitution, batterers and such) Gays meet, date, fall in love, and marry. I am in my 22nd year with my lover. We own our house and cars and have good jobs and are faithful. Again what in Paul’s day constitute against nature and burning in lust after turning from GOD to gods? This should be easy for a FACT there were fertility temples everywhere you look both in Rome and Corinth. I did several TV programs from temple ruins one of them was from the Temple of Cybele already most important in Paul’s day. She was the mother of the gods.

clip_image002This Spanish fountain depicts Cybele in
her chariot.

Cybele was an ancient fertility goddess, called "the Protectress of Rome," whose pagan temple loomed over first century Rome from atop the Palatine Hill. In Cybele’s temple, castrated Galli priests engaged in anal sex with men, in unholy worship of Cybele.

The religious situation Paul faced in first century Rome involved Romans and shrine prostitution.

To the Phoenicians she was Astarte; to the Phrygians, Cybele; to the Babylonians, Ishtar; to the Thracians, Bendis; to the Cretans, Rhea; to the Ephesians, Artemis; to the Canaanites, Atargatis; to the Persians, Anaitis; to the Cappadocians, Ma. But though her names differ, her attributes are the same - she is always the mother who succours and helps, and who bestows fertility.

This composite figure was generally known as Magna Mater, the great mother, and it was said that she was mother of all the other gods...

Hebrew men both in Moses’ day and Paul’s day often went to these fertility temple for ritual sex either with sodomite(male temple prostitute, arsenokoites or is ritual orgies) Ritual orgies are depicted on the ruins, some ruins are covered wall to wall inside and out with every kind of sex act. So, you see why it is easy to get upset when someone like you says love between two people is like orgies in fertility temples?

Verses 28-32 should be a cincture. God gave them over to a what? 700 million gays where are the reprobate minds? The listed evils are where? Let’s look at REAL gays today and anytime in history. We know fertility regions considered them sacred, but includes sex as a worship to gods. Many native American gays were sacred. Gays are “gate keepers” (pass on info between God and man) Please I did not make this up it is historical facts. Matriarchal societies accepted them Patriarchal societies often did not. Today employers thinks gays are their best employees. I work for a company that has around 150 people, gays are their best workers and somehow it seems the math is 10% there are gay go figure. Families in crisis gays are pillars. Health care world fall to pieces if gays walked out of it. I can give example forever about good deeds of gays. How do you get verse 28-32 to apply to gays sin or not?

Blood on my hands? Present truth to gays. If I am wrong show me how you got gays into Romans.. Gays are real people with real history and lives. The Bible is truth. You can’t tell a person is a prostitutes just because you don’t like the person. To be a prostitute you really do have to charge people to have sex with you. Hebrew men did not have sex with male temple prostitutes without paying their fee. They did not go to ritual orgies for free, they paid the temple. If you call gays sodomites you need to show that they are collecting money for their sex service (according to Paul it would have to mean today Christian men are going to gays and paying them for sex in worship to say Buddha.) If you want to condemn gays you need the Bible to be talking about real gays not gang rapists or temple prostitutes or the like. Paul’s word arsenokoites can be shown that it was used 56 times in a few centuries after Paul. We have the entire documents of those Christian writings. 56 times means no other recording of the use of that word. Greeks used it 76 time up to almost the 15th century again no hint to gays in Christian or Greek writing when used arsenokoites. BLOOD on whose hands. If you can’t produce facts about your claims I would be worried if I was you.

Yes God is love but he also has a very Holy side of who he is. He cannot stand or allowed sin in his Kingdom, you need to check your heart out and ask God to wash you with his blood and set you free!!!

Gays4jesus: Jesus paid the price for all sin. What you are saying is Jesus death does not cover all sin. And you are saying lets judge each other to check our sins. If this be so we need to obey the LAW of Moses and to atone our sins we need to slaughter animals. Every Christian sins every day till they die. Some sins we know other we don’t know and others we are conditioned to think is sin or not. Our best is as filthy rags to God. If you are Apostolic Pentecostal I ain’t interested. I am Assemblies of God Pentecostal which is very different. Holier than thou is a cult religion so sorry I can’t condone your belief if you are of this Pentecostal belief. Jesus is our friend. You have not even spent a second to check out my 36 years walking with Jesus. Remember it is a personal one on one relationship we have with Jesus. Any time day of night you want to go heads on about my walk with Jesus I am ready. I have a challenge also This is only if you want to see the move of God sense you won’t listen I have this authority from Jesus to operate in this challenge.

What is about as sick as a Christian can be is one that tells another Christian that has been a born again Christian baptized in the Holy Spirit for over 36 years that now you need to ask God to wash you in his BLOOD. This means you somehow ignored what it is to be a Christian. I am gay and I am on TV I have jumped from the frying pan into the fire of Christian hate and you feel need to tell me I need to check my heart out? What sort of things do you think an openly gay TV preacher goes through and one that has a worldwide online ministry? How do you suppose it is to have 1 million plus condemning you because they are conditioned to think gay is sin. What sort of provision do you suppose Jesus will give to cover a person with the task of facing Christian head on in false doctrines. Do you think Christians really are cool when it comes to God’s messengers? Or with someone that comes to truth such as the Earth circles the SUN? The anti-gay doctrine was created by Catholics around 700 years ago to create scandal. How fun is it to be a leader when the Church attacks you with a scandal to remove you from power. The Church can be quite evil and God has a plan for this as he did with Disobedience of Israel. Read Lev. 26 the 4th level. This is where the Church is today 4th level disobedience. You are right now hook line and sinker into false doctrines. The False anti-gay doctrine and no doubt the false pre-trib doctrine.

His Kingdom? Wonder if you know what that is? Jesus will reign 1000 years as killing on Earth. Do you want to be in that kingdom? Hopefully you will be co-reigning instead. Kingdom in hearts? Hey if that is all you want out of Jesus your loss. More to Jesus than a spirit la la land. I again am Assemblies of God most of their beliefs are on course with mine. I got lots to learn and in a flash if you got truth and can present it I can accept it. But if you wishy washy state a fantasy I ain’t interested. I am into truth not fiction, I am not 64 for nothing, I know what I know and it is not from wishing it to be. Get off you band wagon and get down to Jesus h e is truth so present truth. Quoting verses tells me you can read not that you understands what you read.

Yes I am a Pastor my own self in FL, and I do have people who look's up to me be very careful Mr. John. I tell you the truth you sir are not a true Pastor or a man of God!!!! Blessing's feel free to write me back sir.

Gays4jesus: Again, you state serious things. I given you a few things to check out. And my challenge stands. I can come and have quite a faith healing rally at your church or if you want to say gay is sin I can have my challenge. Healing God can do but that is not all God does. Stubborn disobedient people he raises nations to punish. Islam exist as a spanking rod to the Church for 2000 years of Disobedience. (Vatican invented Islam). 1260 days is set to spank the Church during which time 3.5 billion people on Earth will be killed. Huge numbers will turn their backs on God. God is about complete with his preparation of restorers that will go out to restore many of those that turn their backs on Jesus during that time. If you don’t know what I am talking about start learning, you will not be spared the Rod, but you can be a part of the restorer. Another prophecy. I don’t care how wrong your false doctrines are. I don’t even care if you really got some bad sins that should be fixed up. God is not going to select what churches will or will not participate. He will not determine which denomination either. What will happen to you is suddenly hordes of people will flood into your church and you then have to deal with the crowds. You will be swamped and soon have to adapt to a style that can serve. The LAW or PHYSICS will set in and through no genius of you your choice will be what make hordes served, saith the Lord.