Friday, August 27, 2010

Reply to Brain's comment on arsenokoites and qadesh

I am sorry you are confused. Guess you are not that bright concerning the gay issue to be this confused. Those two words is in 7 of the 14 verses used against gays so what is there to be confused about? Because as you say they are in isolation, which they are not because they are only in 7 of the 14 verses in the anti-gay doctrine so exact sentence is an easy thing to find. There is no mystery to it.

YEP a CELL like Roy Blizzard said. I Moses' day they did not know what a cell was, we do today. Adam's rib we know biologically. So apply a chamber you would have to conclude a cell. This is not me it is Roy Blizzard and nother experts. Bible has a word that would mean flat out bone in the biological sense, it was not used here, but thanks for showing that the word really is cell. Tech issues as to a real rib is not significant accept to use for other analogies not related to construction of what ever tissues.

The intimacy is not specific and is obeying rules of speech to masses. A speaker does not speak to the minority when talking in a large group. The minority understands its application. Why should i have to explain these semantics to you? In the beginning has many things that are not later or now and we are tons different because it was not there in the beginning, but the Bible has after the beginning. Talking about gays can never get stuck in a time zone or else having sex with sibling should be just fine today right?

So you totally agree 5 of the 7 verses that use the word sodomite 100% means a form of prostitution? With main emphasis it is pagan male temple prostitutes as used in the Bible not out of Bible same time period other uses?

You blow it on NT uses of arsenokoites did you toss your expertise with the NT? click for details

"And you shall not lie with a man of lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man of those lying with woman..." (p)

3. "And you shall not lie with a man who has lyings with woman..." (g,p)

4. "And you, of those lying with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (p)

5. "And you, of lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

6. "And you, having lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

7. "And you shall not lie with a man (as you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

1. "And you shall not lie with a man (like you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man (while you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

8. "And you shall not lie in beds of woman with a man..." (g)

9. "And you shall not lie lyings of woman with a man..." (g)

10. "And you shall not lie with a man as a woman lies..." (g)

11. "And you shall not lie with a man as (one) lies with woman..." (g)

12. "And you shall not lie with a man as (you) lie with woman..." (g)

13. "And you shall not lie with a man as with woman..." (g)

This list is OT Lev. 18 and 20 How you decided it is NT arsenokoitesI am not sure but thanks as you connect NT sodomites with OT sodomites as yes they are the same and it was Paul’s full intention as both in Corinth and Rome every street corner had its fertility temple with its sodomites.

This is as your even say a man that in the past (and present) slept with women (had sex and enjoyed it) before doing the man with man thing. Going to fertility temple joining ritual orgies and sex with male prostitutes. Greeks used this word 76 time up to near the 15th century never hinted to gays. Christians used it 56 times no hint to gays either. This is documented so not guessing. The with boys issue is very specific and not Christian myth. In Corinth very wealthy men hired boys or young adults to act like lovers as a status symbol. As bad as pedophiles are this verse is not talking about them, catamites may not be all that easy to detect in ancient times, but a little research and you find what Paul was talking about. Now in Paul’s day there is no writing anywhere that is easy to get to see where Paul got any idea about real gays to condemn. Instead those ancient days shows real gays and not condemned, even that jesus spoke of real gays saying most world not accept his teaching on it. Example:

Paul sort of invented arsenokoites but it is strict and it is from male temple prostitute. Paul particularly had a huge problem. He kept seeing Hebrew men going to these fertility temples joining the ritual orgies. In these temples again no guess work too many studies showing many sodomite cut it off and dressed like women to help str8 men (most if not all recorded clients were married men regarding the Hebrew men going to these temples. One of Paul’s words representing fornication actually lists “male prostitute” not related to temples just ordinary. But, the word does not say if the man was gay (it wouldn’t matter still a prostitute) fact of Paul’s day there were few very few if any gay prostitutes. In Paul’s day it was not an issue where gays really needed a prostitutes. However, a fact male prostitute were plenty available for women in those days and well recorded. So trying to get arsenokoites to somehow include ordinary gays can’t be done. There are at least 9 Greek words for gays more like we see today. One is spelled differently but sound similar to arsenokoites but meant very different. Paul’s arsenokoites meant bottom line “male temple prostitute. Very related to Hebrew:

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.

This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin.

You input is very good thanks you, most of what you show is not showing gay is sin or talking about gays. One thing is sure with so many Bible versions and modern dictionaries for Bible it is a wonder still most of the Bible is fairly intact. However, of huge concern about modern version is their full background source that you do not find in their prefaces. All claim to be most accurate. ALL and I mean ALL modern version comes from Westcott and Hort’s translation. It became the official Church of England’s Bible where all modern versions comes from having depending on version 50,000 to 80,000 corruptions designed to subtly take Christ out of Jesus.. I call them satan counterfeit Bibles. The KJV being rejected by many even shunned is the only easily available Bible that is from the correct manuscripts. Two sets both in the 2nd century both have stories to tell. Westcott and Hort are far more evil than corrupt Bible translation. They created the Ghost Club, that not something good.

So many modern dictionary for Bible are mates to modern versions. They do not mate up to the original hand written copies of the origins. They are Johnny come latelys adding in modern definitions. Even the beloved Strong’s is a very different book than it was 40 years ago. However modern version or not no one has an excuse it all can be researched and studied and the actual meaning can be found when following any translation and not just the modern version of the dictionaryies.

I really appreciate your input. You did not particularly say you think gay is sin or not, if you are gay it will be mocked,, if you are str8 you might be pro-gay as it were. But yours adds to the credible meanings and shows an attempt to get the word meaning. Rare to see someone that thinks gay is sin go into the words like you did. Maybe this will help some understand what backup your mouth means when ask to explain how you get gays into the Bible. I still can’t image why so many that think gay is sin won’t even try to explain it



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