Wednesday, December 16, 2009

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (KJV)

Hello!

Between You and Tammy Perez

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Tammy Perez December 14 at 10:10pm Report

The bible says .........
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (KJV)
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
gays4jesus: “nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind” in GREEK is “arsenokoites” and “catamite” with these 2 GREEK words you can tract down meaning.

733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace); from 730 and 2845; a sodomite: KJV-- abuser of (that defileself) with mankind.

3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV-- effeminate, soft.

Hebrew version:

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.

This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin. Is it possible that you (Tammy Perez) give me and my readers information that shows that the above original meanings somehow means gays instead of the ancient definitions?

Arsenokoites was used by Paul who both in Corinth and in Rome saw a fertility temple on every corner which had active male temple prostitutes bringing in funds for the temple. Often these temple prostitutes cut off there “ding dong” and dressed like women because their clients were str8 married men. Paul’s and Moses’ problem was not so much the unbelievers went to them being pagan god worshippers, but that the Hebrew men often went to these male temple prostitutes and ritual orgies and had ritual sex in worshipping these other gods hoping to receive blessings from those gods. Paul actually went into a temple (the most famous in the land) that had over 1000 temple prostitutes and it also had inside that statue to the unknown god.

Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. (KJV)

What I am saying is there is a lot to be studied when you accuse 650 million people today as being condemned by God with your few verses. 1 Cor. 6:9’s “sodomite and catamite” has been translated differently in a list of 30 Bible versions. Finally, in 1850 at a clergy, convention in the USA it had been taught it meant masturbators would not inherit. They agreed Heaven would be empty if this were true because they believed everyone did it. So they also agreed to change how that verse would be taught and they selected gays as it was already a common acceptance because of the then 600 year old antigay doctrine that gays were already evil so no one would miss them. Then in 1946 the two words were removed and the word homosexual was inserted which was not a Bible word and did not come from the two words in fact in Paul’s day there were at least 9 Greek words for gays. Now I can write a book on this verse alone in its journey to the present day on how Christians treated through those years. How do you get it right today when you don’t even spend a second of time studying those 2 words to see if they are words for gays or not.

Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

gays4jesus: The context starts in verse 18 and goes through 32. 18-23 details a description of str8 adults turned from GOD to gods. 24-25 explain what God did, he let those do their thing and go do what they set in their hearts namely go to the other gods to worship in their ways. 26-27 describes their ways as ritual orgies ritual sex in worshipping these other gods. This is a known fact with so much information it is a wonder how you can be so blind about what went on in Paul’s day. I went to Rome recently and I preached from the temple ruins of Cybele the mother of the gods. She was a major point of worship in Paul’s day in the Roman Empire. The Greek words nature and natural:

5446 phusikos (foo-see-kos'); from 5449; physical", i.e. (by implication) instinctive: KJV-- natural. Compare 5591. 5449 phusis (foo'-sis); from 5453; growth (by germination or expansion), i.e. (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension, a genus or sort; figuratively, native disposition, constitution or usuage: KJV-- ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).

Today the words nature and natural has new meanings we are accustom to because of science advancements. Therefore, it is important to know what these words meant to the Paul’s day reek speaking people. To sum it up we can say that it means seed and instinct meaning if God were to change things:

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: (KJV)

The nature and natural has to be these people were str8 as adults so that they can start behaving gay as you imply by using these verses. To go against means they had to have been doing it right n the first place. Gays would have had to be str8 then changed to gay. This is not the case, gays were already gay and already dating other gays and knew they were gay from even preteen. They knew God and they did not turn to other gods.

An Apple seed cannot change to an orange tree as it grows. Instincts are very strong and at t right time, that forces a str8 person to want the opposite sex. Str8s already conditioned from birth by society in general be str8 so transitioning to having actual sex does not present surprises as your instincts demand you perform str8 sex. Now gays conditioned to be str8 finding their instincts saying no no presents a dilemma that str8 sex seems appalling. They find they instead are attracted to same sex. This all is a complicated system and I am not going to go into further detail except to say my point is the verse is not talking about gays provable by a number of impossible acts in the verse. A gay couple is not described at all. Then you have the issue of verse 28-32. This is a serious matter. 650 million gays in the world today so finding gays and their society behaviors is easy. The record is loud and clear. Gays behave very opposite as what is described in verses 28-32. Gays are employers best workers, the health care field if they lost gays it would collapse. Gays are pillars in family crisis and more. History and all cultures have often placed gays into a gateway class as a sacred people or spiritual source. Gays whatever cultural class they are in are of significant benefit to that culture. Christianity amputated gays 700 years ago from the Body of Christ. Jesus never forsook them the Church did and has suffered greatly for it.


Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)
22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 (KJV)
13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

gays4jesus: Hebrew/Grammar and Gay Christian 101 are very good links to read in-depth facts of the verses used against gays. Hebrew Grammar especially details Leviticus and Gays Christian 101 has many detailed and documented Bible related articles on each verse and much more. It also has the 76 full documents by Christians over the 1600 years after Paul used the word sodomite. In summary Leviticus says “practicing str8 man” first man “male temple prostitute” second man. The womankind means “sexually immoral woman” like an adulterous. Abomination means “acts done in worship to other gods” I find homophobes refuse to click on any link that may be positive towards gays and I expect you will refuse to click these links too. You just don’t want gay to be anything other than a sin.
God is still the same God he never changes!
Malachi 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

gays4jesus: John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (KJV) Being set free is a remarkable thing. You are in bondage to a false doctrine invented by a few powerful Catholic leaders over 700 years ago. They made this doctrine so they could create scandal to purge leaders from high office that did not have the same ideals as they. Like today making scandals was a great way to ruin people. When you learn the truth about how this false doctrine against gays came about and the historical record of its progress into your heart then you could be set free. Alone the verses should set you free, as they do not describe gays in the verses you are using. Now in the Bible, there are detailed descriptions of real gays and they are always in a positive light. So much so that in one phrase by Jesus to make it very clear to understand would be him saying out of his own mouth “gay is not sin”. There are many scholars that have taken on the research into ancient days as to what real gays were called in those days. This sets you free if you just take the time to look into it. 650 million gays today they have their testimonies too. Many accept Jesus and walk with him and can tell you how he has changed their lives. Gay testimonies are like str8 testimonies same thing accept Jesus do a 180-degree turn and walk with him. All you see is sex and if this is your way then we can spend years 24/7 talking about sinful str8 sex which the Bible is full of, but you never even for a second think of your dating falling in love and marrying as sexually immoral, you think things like rape and str8s that boast of 100s of sex partners as immoral but not your love for guy. I have been with my partner for 20 years and NOW a Washington State law “same as Marriage” voted by Washington State’s citizens makes it legal. News last night said District of Columbia had just signed into law gay marriage. This process of gay equal rights follows time tested other rights movements and legalization processes. One of which is women’s right to vote. The truth is for protection in governments it is on Jesus’ shoulders. Even evil governments have general laws to protect its citizens.

Tammy Perez be set free in the name of Jesus
PLEASE DON"T BE DECIEVED! GOD BLESS!

gays4jesus: Great deception are things like all modern versions are satan counterfeit bibles, governments plans to kill up to 6 billion people and create a one world government. Deception is you are conditioned to believe the word sodomite means gay:

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV—sodomite

Friday, December 4, 2009

Assemblies of God Gays meet in West Seattle

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I have a background since Jan. 1974 in the Assemblies of God. Every once in a while I go check the barometer of Pentecostal gay groups sprouting up. It is a great need for gays that are Pentecostal to realize they do not have to go it alone. Gay church galore for both gay Catholics and gay Protestants. Even groups of these abound in home Bible studies and the like.

Pentecostal gays in much small groups and churches can be found that are not what I call mainline, meaning Assemblies of God or Four Square or off shoot Independent churches or groups. I don't mean to offend these other brands of Pentecostals like Apocalyptic and United or other fringes of the Pentecostal movement, but those are simply put not what I am talking about because their doctrines go out of bounds of the as it were mainstream Christian Doctrines.

Now Assemblies of God (or offshoots) is the major issue I have in my quest for gay Pentecostal groups. When gays4jesus in all its writings talks about Pentecostal gays they refer to Assemblies of God type Christians.

My challenge is for you gay Pentecostals to start being the Pentecostal you are claiming to be. Join a groups of Pentecostal gays or start one and grow it into a church.

I want to start a group in West Seattle call me 206-338-4297 or email me if you would like to be part of starting a group in West Seattle or your area.

Disappointing is to see the Pentecostal gay sites and actual churches mainly act as if they are a lone entity keeping safe and playing like an ordinary church. Many of their home pages tend to avoid mentioning even that they are gay. Some of those non-AOG Pentecostals will have some active involvement, but again they are not mainstream.

We as what I would call a breakaway Assemblies of God group which would be like any Independent church that has background in the Assemblies but just felt their hands were bound due to General Counsel of the AGs bylaws so they left to start their own churches.

As gays, we can just attend our AG and adjust to ignore or tolerate gay condemnation from their doctrines. You can read AG’s statement of faith and find it is exactly what you believe or you can do something. You can start your own group. Brant Baker in the late 70s and early 80s did this and was on his way to becoming an international Faith Healing ministry having already been in a couple other countries. He filled huge auditoriums and healed many. TBN found out he had aids and banned his programs and erased his named from the Christian record. Well that was then and this is now we can’t get erased or banned from the public if we chose that route.

Individually we can almost do nothing in the way of fellowshipping and having a worship service where we together can operate in the Spirit Praising God and Jesus. Yes at home in our closets we can do a lot in our prayer closets. But, no matter what we should be meeting together especially as we see that day coming of his returning to Earth. It is disgusting to be helpless in our home Assemblies of God when they so often condemn gays giving no hope.

If you do not know much about the Bible concerning gays there are so many sources of help and I have been preaching on TV about the Bible concerning gays for 25 years every week. So, finding a Pentecostal gay groups to meet with is essential for gay Pentecostals.

Many of us Assemblies of God folk know the worshipping together with many fellow Christians in a Pentecostal fashion and seeing the operations of spiritual gifs is a blessing but we can’t do this alone at home. And at church we always have the sense if they knew they would kick us out. I was told once by the then West Seattle Assemblies of God pastor that if I even blinked that he would call the police. A lesbian friend of mine was invited to a AOG alter to receive prayer from the congregation’s women. The pretense was just to pray, but when she came up they immediately surrounded her and began casting out satan in such a manner it terrified her so much she could not set her foot back in a church (later she met a Pentecostal woman who became her lover).

I was invited to a home Bible study of about 25 Pentecostal pastors of the AG type (they were str8 and normally would condemn gays). I led gay son’s of one of those pastors to Christ in a gay bar. That father tried for his whole life and could not make it happen and was so overwhelmed that finally his son accepted Jesus that he invited me to be part of the home Bible study. For one year, I went to their group. They never ever hinted anything about gay being sin, they just accepted be and we worshipped, studied and spiritual gifts operated. We can make a difference, 25 pastors lives changed to accept me just because I led one of their sons to Jesus in a gay dance bar. (late 80s).

Personally I cannot sing or play any instrument and I don’t have any gift of hospitality as it were to make a meeting run in that area of needs, My lover is pretty good at that but is not really into meetings so I can’t promise a neat cozy background stuff that makes any meeting function well in the generally setting. (don’t know if I am explaining this well heh heh).

It would be cool if to have gay Pentecostal that can sing and play music and has a gift of creating songs in the Spirit. It is a miracle if I know 2 words in any song let alone keep in tone. What I do have is plenty of time on TV preaching and I have personally dealt with over 800,000 homophobes. Spent plenty of time involved in one on one contacts with ex-gay leaders and more. Many local pastors have had face to face say to me. When I was in the closet at church pastors galore in the spirit said wonderful thing from God over me and they often confided in me when they were in tough times with board member trying to find faults or some guest speak was like a wolf in sheep’s clothing I was somehow sought out as something they could talk with. When I moved to Seattle and went on TV and pastors then saw gay in my screen name I was attacked from every angle. I was in the AOGs for 35 yrs and still consider myself a member. I’ve done a ton of research I recorded several MCC services to put on TV. I am saying this to give a little background. I am leaving tons out.

What I expect in my meetings is miracles and the move of God. My ministry is a worldwide web ministry touching every country, maybe not in a huge way YET, but I have touched people in every country and at least one person in every country has seen my TV program. I have invites from many pastors around the world to preach to crowds of 10,000 plus. I can’t go because they are basically poor and I can’t go out and buy a ticket every day either.

I will use Brant Baker again as an example, he met with a few and it did not take too long before he filled places like the Shrine auditorium in LA. He also was with Lonnie Frisbee of Vineyard churches, he was the first to be called a Jesus freak and he coined the phrase into popularity “come Holy Spirit”.

For me as a Pentecostal I can’t understand very well why there has not been a move in the Gay Pentecostal community yet. I am so dumb about starting meetings not knowing how to get to first base, but I will keep trying till Jesus comes or I die first. So I am pleading with West Seattle’s gay Pentecostal to join me let us make a difference through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let’s save the Lost and reconcile the saved.

Contact Information

http://gays4jesus.com
Phone: 206-338-4297 (GAYS) also a fax line

gaysforjesus647@gmail.com

gays4jesus@gays4jesus.com

stablesministries@gays4jesus.com

http://groups.google.com/group/LastDaysPastors

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gaysforjesus/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/westseattlegaysforjesus/

http://clik.to/gays4jesuslovegift

http://gays4jesus.blogspot.com/

http://twitter.com/gays4jesus
http://www.facebook.com/gays4jesus
http://www.myspace.com/gays4jesus

http://www.youtube.com/gays4jesus

Friday, November 27, 2009

Gays For Jesus of West Seattle is a favorite

clip_image002Praise God “Gays For Jesus” TV programs is a favorite on SCANTV. You can watch my program weekly at http://scantc.org Pacific Standard Time at 7AM or if you are in the Seattle area on channel 77 same time.

Wednesday, November 25, 2009

West Seattle Pentecostal gays weekly prayer and worship service

whiteJohn

Phone: 206-338-4297 (GAYS)
gays4jesus@gays4jesus.com
Location: In West Seattle
(probably Westwood area)
Day: Probably Mondays evenings

LET'S MEET IN WEST SEATTLE

If you are gay and Pentecostal (or would like to be Pentecostal) and generally believe in my Statement of Faith and expect miracles to happen contact me and lets start a West Seattle gay Pentecostal praise and worship group.

My beliefs beyond my Statement of Faith in that we would cover would be on the soon return of Jesus and about those conditions we will be soon living in as the world prepares to enter into the Last Days. I also believe Christians do not get a free ticket to Heaven and miss the tribulation period. I believe the Bible goes into lots of details about Christians needing a shaking to cover the prayers of the innocent ones  persecuted by the Church for the past 2000 years. This will take 1260 days in the TRIB before the Rapture can happen. Of course the 14 verses (some say 16) that are used to condemn gays will be covered as those question arise. Beside usual topics.

Tuesday, November 24, 2009

West Seattle Gay Pentecostal Home Bible studies

I have decided to begin a local group for gay Pentecostal Christians to meet
regularly. I really don't know much about how to do this or where to start. So I decided the first place it to start a West Seattle yahoo group. I seem other such yahoo groups for West Seattle that gave me this idea. I also am reading West Seattle may be becoming a hot spot for gays anyway after all I have liked living in this community now for 20 years.
Generally we would meet like any home like Bible study and grow from there. Probably in a library hall or some place a member might know about or offer. Goals is to have a local place for gay Pentecostals to meet (others are welcome but it will always remain Pentecostal oriented.
Extended goals would have outreaches as per when Pentecostals on fire for the Lord get up and move things can happen and God will move too. Pentecostals (today being often called charismatic which I think waters down the meaning of Acts chapter 2)are the visible side of God's move that manifests in faith healing rallies and significant manifestations of God Glory. In 1967 Catholic gays started Dignity, then in 1968 Metropolitan Church began with a Four Square pastor (Four square is Pentecostal but MCC chose an interfaith direction which will always leave Pentecostal twitching in their seats holding back for the sake of not offending others). In 1969 God then began with Stonewall a secular gay rights movement that saw laws change that today it is often a 50/50 pro/con concerning gays. So, decades have come and gone while gay non-Pentecostals established themselves and are quite comfortable meeting like any church meets. All the while Pentecostal gays waited for magic I guess for God to say it is your turn at bat. Well many us Pentecostals been in prayer and done our best with not much support. I know God has been preparing the behind the scenes for the gay Pentecostal movement. I think we are right about time that it should begin. God is dealing with me so strongly that I got to do something so I am calling for Pentecostal gays to get involved. Don't keep trying to do it yourself or wait for it to be handed to you. Don't sit back in your Pentecostal churches continually hearing antigay sermons. Don't sit back and just let non-Pentecostal gays have their ways in some gay church you might be attending. Whether locally in West Seattle or around the world join up let change Christianity to what it was intended to be. The Church cut us off over 700 years ago and grown sick ever since. God
grafted gays back in in the late 1960s. Now as Pentecostal gays let us take our turn at bat and heal the Church, I believe gays in the Body of Christ is a very important member of His Body. Let’s take up our position in the Body of Christ. Let meet together hear in West Seattle to worship and praise the Lord and grow in Him .

Friday, November 20, 2009

Pastor Earl Inman says I make the Bible fit what I want

clip_image002Pastor Earl Inman
Freedom Victory Centre
1050 Simcoe St. North, Suite 104
Oshawa , Ontario
L1G 4W5
Phone: 905-723-4300
Fax: 905-723-4301
freedomvictory@bellnet.ca
www.freedomvictorycentre.com


From:
freedomvictorycentre [mailto:freedomvictory@bellnet.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:32 AM
To: stablesministries@gays4jesus.com
Subject: Contact The Stables Ministries for any reason (this means Earl clicked link from my home page http://gays4jesus.com)

It is not what you think or what I  think or belive  it is what the bible says  you can say what you like or try to make it fit your lifestyle

gays4jesus: Thanks for visiting my website and clicking to email me for any reason link. Hope when you refer to the Bible you means the KJV and not a modern version. To understand what I mean please use your web browser and look up Westcott and Hort. AND it is not what I think or YOU think but what IS in the Bible. AND yes YOU can’t make it fir YOUR lifestyle. I know you are meaning:”gay lifestyle” but there are 650 million gays so fitting a lifestyle is not so easy as pretty much everyone on has their own. But because your conditioning define an orientation as a lifestyle you equate a country western person to a motor cycle gang to a opera loving person to a politician to all kinds for many life styles. Gay and str8 are orientations not lifestyles. I am in 100% agreement with YOU about the Bible and fitting it to match what you like not what is Bible. So I am so happy you emailed me. I would be so happy for you to show me how I am getting the Bible wrong. I found there are 14 verses used to condemn gays; you can add a couple more as there are unused verses that actually could be like talking about lesbians. However, we are dealing with just a few verses. To narrow it down we can eliminate 6 verses of the 14 because they use the same word “sodomite” and whether in Hebrew or Greek they still mean the same definition in original language and grammar and Bible days’ usages. It should be easy for you to correct me. You are a pastor so you should by definition have educated yourself to know how to understand the Bible days and languages and cultures of God’s People as Christians or Hebrews chosen of God. I can help you get started so you can understand what I mean.

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.


This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin. Now you may want qadesh to mean gays, that is what you are implying when you say :“it is what the Bible says” Somehow I would hope you would be Able to show me using FACTs of ancient Hebrew/Greek language/grammar to show qadesh means gay and not “male temple prostitute” which in Paul’s and Moses’ day fertility temple was on every corner and they had 100% provable male temple prostitutes called sodomites. Others verses use word that in English actually means, “practicing str8 man”. Gang rape, and “str8 adults that turned from GOD to gods”. Would you be so kind to show me how arsenokoites used 76 times since Paul used in 1 Cor 6:9 in the following 1,600 years means gays? This is documented all 76 times history shows arsenokoites was used by Christians in something written down that is still here with us today and the entire article is intact. How do you get gays into that verse if for 1600 years Christians did not put gays inot it?

God has not changed  on what he said  what was sin in the   old or new testament  

gays4jesus: again I am in 100% agreement here.

it does not matter what way  you cut the cake it is SIN 

gays4jesus: if it does not matter what way you cut the cake then could you cut a piece for me and tell me how you get real gays into a verse, a phrase, or a word in the Bible? So far you are stating it like in your mind it is an absolute. But if you are so sure then why not help with my misunderstandings of what the verses say. Where is the info, the more I research the more detailed the historic event are. Paul went into a fertility temple in Corinth in that temple were 1000 temple prostitutes and it had that statue to THE unknown god.

Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. (KJV)

So we have a real temple in which real temple prostitutes are. History tells us as well as Bible that Paul was not that happy about Hebrew men going to fertility temples for ritual sex with the fertility temple’s male prostitutes. This was true in Moses’ day as well. Can you str8n me out about how Paul was not talking about Temple prostitutes but somehow so far as I can see by magic he got ordinary gays into the Bible? I just have this big problem of not being about to find the 14 verses talking about two men or two women falling in love and marrying being said to be sin in the Bible. All I can see (but you imply I am just making it how I want it) is gang rape, going to orgies in worship of fertility gods, and male temple prostitutes. So I beg you show me how you get gays into a verse.

Pastor Earl Inman

Freedom Victory Centre

1050 Simcoe St. N

Oshawa, On L1G 4W5

905-723-4300

www.freedomvictorycentre.com

gays4jesus:

Weekly TV preacher since 1985

Assemblies of God since 1974

http://gays4jesus.com

Diane Hawver-Hunter “REPENT” woman taken in adultery

clip_image001ORIGINAL MESSAGE FROM KEVIN:

Kevin DeLaune Pastor Perry Stone.... I really wish you could explain Hebrews 6: 4-6 and Hebrews 10: 26-29. I was caught up in DELIBERATE WILLFUL SIN for the past year. I KNEW what God told me NOT to do and yet I kept on doing it! I want God back so much, but I'm afraid God has now rejected me. Those verses DO state that. Please help!


clip_image002Response I am commenting on:

Diane Hawver-Hunter

remember Jesus as the well with the woman caught up in adultry? he said" your sins are firgiven".." go and sin no more"

Yesterday at 11:09am

gays4jesus: Verse context:
John 8:3-11 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (KJV)

Funny when I read the context of the story about being caught in sin by Christians, it appears that those that caught a sinner in the act simply had no grounds to be accusers.
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Diane Hawver-Hunter are you part of THEY? 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
I’d say unless clip_image001[1] Kevin DeLaune is raping or murdering or some other well established criminal law breaking we should offer ways out not ways to heap guilt on him, conviction gave that woman’s accuser a heart to leave it alone. Jesus said sin no more not Christians. It was Jesus who knows that woman personally was able to give instruction about her life’s issue.
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Karen Wood- Hawkins SAID:

“Kevin, as long as you repent of your sin,”

gays4jesus: Wouldn’t it be nice if magically you can state repent and everyone understands and changes. However, very often we assume we know sin by names. Above the accuser came with a sin name “adultery” but it appeared the accusers were guilty as sin as they say. Easy to say repent, but I bet Kevin DeLaune was wanting explanation to a verse and wants to get back with God, telling someone to repent he if that was magic that might be possible. Kevin believes he was deliberately sinning and may be rejected by God. There are many verses that tells us Jesus will never forsake us or reject us. Will you play God to say exceptions to that rule? Or will you discuss verses that say Jesus did not leave him and has open arms for him unconditionally. He already knows the deliberate acts and he can ask and research about what he believes is sin. We should not assume things and give him absolutes “REPENT” which may not be an easy thing to do if he was hard core drug addict or smoker. If a murderer are advice of course turn yourself in. but we have no clue with the info he gave to judge. My point we are so conditioned to judge we forget to love.

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Tuesday, November 17, 2009

Terrell Mims sent you a message on Facebook...

Please you took time to write back take time to read what I write.

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Terrell Mims


Terrell sent you a message.
Hi John,
First, I want you to know that the whole reason I sent you a message was because OTHER members of the group questioned your motives. I read your post and have no issue with you.

gays4jesus: Thank you for explaining why you sent me the message, however, you certainly could have been a little better at your wording. It really is a no brainer to know almost guaranteed a ministry like Perry’s is well established in Red State beliefs. Probably I hold more Red State beliefs than blue states beliefs Biblewise. However, far too many Christians as with the last 2000 years have been very wrong on issues that hurt others. It should not have to be that Terrell Mims is forced to believe what has come to be called bigotry by many. I am sorry if in my message to you I may come off sounding quite offensive. My motive is far from against you, it is to get you to think. You could have also just ask them to ask me if they questioned my motives. But hey, you and they are wrapped up in deep conditioning concerning gays so it is very unlikely that a gay person would be given any consideration over people that could read what I posted and what I posted is actually decent and will help.
Now, what I do have issue is with the whole "YOU" thing. I don't have an issue with you personally. I don't know you.

gays4jesus: and so in lies the issue you have. You don’t know me so instead of striking up a decent conversation you came on the attack with: “lying, stealing, hate, lust, homosexuality, murder” Pretty insulting I think, though being a gay person, I know it is conditioning that make otherwise decent folk speak as though gays are first just in a list of sins instead of people. If you got to know me you would know me as a man of God. I backup what I say not to boast but as a fact. 35 years in the Assemblies of God ½ that time they did not know I was gay, though I went to church with my lover in the AOGs during that time. I spent a lot of time in Asian communities too. Long story short at every turn they see God in me and tell me so. I can go into great detail about how Christians treat me when they do not know I am gay and when they do know I am gay. It would be funny if it weren’t so hypocritical. How can I be so of God to Christians that see me every day, but of satan when all they see is gay in my screen name? So I don’t blame you for 1st thinking of me as a list of sins instead of a person that entered 2 comments that were really not out of line. Your message to me was still first “gay is sin” then tell me I need to behave myself.
Yes, fornication between straight adults is a sin because EVERY sexual act outside of marriage between man and a woman is a sin.

gays4jesus: So how much fact have you put into this statement? Again not wanting to boast, but I do have quite a knowledge base on Christian marriage over the last 2000 years and we of course know the Bible’s marriages is not even close to today’s style marriage. So if you would like we could discuss FACTS in the Bible and in History about real marriages. Today’s marriages are direct from fertility pagan marriages from around the 12th century. Around the 11th century it was Christian legal to own concubines. Marriage in the Garden was between siblings. Salomon had 100s of wives and concubines and all the patriarchs had many and also sex with their slaves was common, none of the above was condemned. What marriage do you refer to modern day or Bible day? Being a part of Perry Stone’s ministry, I hope you would know a little about marriage. Your statement implies gays can’t marry because you state man and woman. But real GREEK and HEBREW had gay marriages. If you are not an expert then please respect those that are. There are the Greek words Jesus used that says in our modern English a married gay couple. There are verses that 100% cannot be talking about str8 men because of the impossibility in Paul’s day for this to be done according to the verse used and so what way it can be a correct verse of something that could happen would be it talking about gays. Also studies into 10s of 1000s of ancient documents proves real gays in the day of Jesus and Jesus with his own mouth stated gay was not sin if made into its modern day meaning. I expect what I am saying you will reject because you can’t accept gay is not sin, you have to believe the 700 yr old antigay doctrine that was invented to purge leaders from power that did not have the same ideal as the in crowd (Catholic leaders). Marriage is a complex thing and there is a lot of history and Bible on it. I am not making this up. Nearly all this info is from str8 Christian researches. Lots from gays do their homework. God is doing mighty things in the gay Christian community do you even know it exist? I can go on for ever my weakness is to say as much as I can probably loosing you in the process, I just want you to hear there is real FACTs and they aren’t going to go away. What’s more these last days just is not going to pass without a major upheaval in what the churches doctrine concerning gays are. FORNICATION is completely a cop out when using it to try to make gay sin. Once again 69% of single str8 Christians have sex on their 1st date. Not a made up number.

I put that list in because I am not a gay-basher. I love all people, but I must tell the truth. Homosexuality is out of the natural order of God. God made man and woman.

gays4jesus: This is where it is all about. People like you just think stating something like “Homosexuality is out of the natural order of God” means it is and nothing more needs to be said. 650 million gays today is a pretty large number, Please don’t try to dispute this number, you are not gay and you have no interest to check numbers of gays in the world, But I am gay and I do have the background to make a statement 650 million gays. Now in history there weren’t less gays percentagewise. History tells you there were always around the same percentage. In the USA there are 3 gay libraries that have over a million gay books one had 4 million books. This covers a lot of ground. The Vatican has tons of books concerning gays and it is rare anyone gets to see any of them. Regular libraries got tons of book on gays (meaning history and every aspect) I am telling you this to show you that gays is quite in the natural order of things. Because you are str8 and you don’t personally like it does not erase facts. The Garden is not a playground either. God said there that there is a rule that you do not leave parents except to get married. Today almost nobody leaves parents to marry; they leave for school and careers and to have fun. Tell me how many gays have you interview so you can figure out natural order of things? Being gay I have the privilege to know about everything possible about str8s, Str8 do love to talk about anything and everything, gays have the upper hand they know YOU upside down and backwards. Gays also know gays. About the easiest way to explain gays is if you know yourself then you know gays. I’ve talked to over 800,000 homophobes. Do you think I know everything possible about homophobe’s concepts about gays? You could not even possibly have secret information in the Bible that has not been so thoroughly investigated concerning gays. The verse with RIB in it uses a Hebrew word for CELL from that RIB, in the Bible is another Hebrew word for RIB and it would mean bone in Adam’s case, but that word was not used, the word for CELL was used. So the joke that stems from Adam and Eve actually is proof gay is not sin because Steve was in the DNA. Again, you need to be motivated to know this stuff, but you are conditioned gay is sin so to you the English word rib is enough. Note: CELL translation came from a Hebrew definition scholar on TBN for at least a decade or more as their regular backup on Hebrew language in the Bible. The Hebrew word in strong’s talks about a chamber inside that hold stuff. I told you before 14 verses are used by Christians to say gay is sin, I was hoping this would mean to you that if there is only 14 verses and someone told you that, that it would not means you can give one of those 14 verses to say gay is sin. It should mean to you that if yiou use one of those verses you would back it up with facts about the Hebrew words and related Garden events and in history, how it was taught. But you do like all those that say gay is sin and my plea goes unheard that you explain it. Your are condemning 650 million people shouldn’t that encourage you to study after all if you are right they all go to hell so why would you want to show you are right?

The Bible says God does not change and he said "Man should not lie with man as with a woman. It is an abomination.

gays4jesus: every instance of the Bible words for abomination deal with direct worship to other gods. English translators as you can read in the translation info often do not bring over to England the Hebrew meaning. The word man is such a word in Hebrew that has specific meaning depending on the word chosen. In Leviticus the word man means “practicing str8 man”, this is not a guess or a wish. There is 13 possible ways to translate that verse.

1. "And you shall not lie with a man of lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man of those lying with woman..." (p)

3. "And you shall not lie with a man who has lyings with woman..." (g,p)

4. "And you, of those lying with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (p)

5. "And you, of lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

6. "And you, having lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

7. "And you shall not lie with a man (as you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

1. "And you shall not lie with a man (like you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man (while you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

8. "And you shall not lie in beds of woman with a man..." (g)

9. "And you shall not lie lyings of woman with a man..." (g)

10. "And you shall not lie with a man as a woman lies..." (g)

11. "And you shall not lie with a man as (one) lies with woman..." (g)

12. "And you shall not lie with a man as (you) lie with woman..." (g)

13. "And you shall not lie with a man as with woman..." (g)

In each translation, the manner in which the noun, mishk'vey, is interpreted is denoted by (g) for gerund, and (p) for participle.

3 of them could actually be translated simply a man, however that would affect the sentence grammar so severely it no longer could be read. The other 10 correct possible ways say a man that has slept with a woman. So far we have a str8 man enjoying sex with women and something about worshipping other gods. Womankind is not a wife the Hebrew starts in its definition that the woman is an adulterous woman, she is a sexually immoral woman to start with, and adultery connection is “God is a jealous God” so going after other gods is not God’s cup of tea. Now we go to Moses’ day and we do in fact find the historical record show Hebrew men went to fertility temples along the way to the Promised Land and had sex with their male temple prostitutes.

Lev 18:22
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"And male not you-lie-with lyings-with woman, detestable it-is."

So, it could be read as any of the following,

· "And you shall not lie with man lyings-with woman, it is detestable."

· "And you shall not lie with man, you who has lyings with woman..."

· "And you shall not lie with man, you who lies with woman..."

· "And you shall not lie with man who has lyings with woman..."

· "And you shall not lie with man who lies with woman..."

Hebrew/Grammar This link is the complete article on Leviticus and other verses. That article details the grammar and meaning. It is rare that a homophobe will go to any link I give so I expect that you are so happy with your belief about Leviticus that you will also not click this link.

" However, every sin (lying, stealing, blasphemy, hate) will send us to Hell and only be repenting (turning from and forsaking) sin and turning to Jesus we will be saved.

gays4jesus: at least you removed homosexual from that list this time. However, like I said I have been in the Assemblies of God since 1974 and for half that time I never missed a service or a workshop or a guest speaker. I sat in many upper level leader teachings and for 1 year I attended a home Bible study with a group of 20 -25 Pentecostal pastors. I had led one of their sons to Jesus and so that father invited me to join them. These pastors normally would be homophobes, but because I led one of their sons to Christ I became part of them for a year and that entire time they never hinted anything about sin issues of the homophobic false doctrine against gays, instead they fellowshipped together teaching the word and operating in spiritual gift in the Assemblies of God manner so my point I am well versed in sin doctrines and repentance doctrine. If you like we can talk about sin and repentance. But being gay and practicing it like being str8 and practicing is not a sin and it is a completely different topic and issue. The gay issue has mainly 14 verses 12 dating back 700 years when it became a doctrine. There are a couple more verses that some say pertain to lesbians, but as even in those 14 verses several are never used or known about by homophobe. This really limits and make easy the research concerning gays to just a few verses. One word:

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.

This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin. So techniquely you can say it is just one verse. So you are left with gang rape (Gen 19) sodomites “male temple prostitutes” (7 of the 14) and str8 adults turned from GOD to gods (rom 1:18-32) so it should be easy to get explanation of how you get gays into a verse. (Jude just talks about sexual immorality not saying what kind and it is a no brainer that was going on in Sodom). Often the homophobes I talk with deter from the topic of gays and get side tracked into talking about common sin that knows no orientation and is not related to be in the topic about gays. Topic about gays is the 14 verses and until it is shown it talks about gays you cannot add general sin classes to make gay seem even worse.
You said you saw miracles and answered prayer. AWESOME!  Remember, Jesus said "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name and done miracles and I will tell them depart from me you worker of iniquity (a flagrant lifestyle of sin) I never knew you.

gays4jesus: I did not just see I had personally instant dramatic physical healing and I got it when I raised my arms to Heaven and ask Jesus to heal me in his name. One of those time I saw the Holy Spirit pour from the North over a mountain range (1000 ft tall so actually the local hills)when the Holy Spirit got directly east of me He pour down to the Earth and when He got to my head level I was instantly flooded with the Love of God and healing, I was in desperate bout of severe food poisoning with no doctor within an hour’s drive. Try to think I have a 36 year walk with Jesus and one thing you can’t explain is the things that happen by the Lord in my life, All you can do is try to make it satan and trash me and other gays by insinuating Jesus never knew us. You don’t have much choice because you can’t accept that Jesus would be with gays like he is with you and so all you can do is say gays can’t be saved. Homophobe loves to evoke Roman’s 1:28-32 as you are doing in this message by saying (a flagrant lifestyle of sin) all you have to make you say that is simple they are gay so that is the only thing you have to says (a flagrant lifestyle of sin) like str8s there is no str8 lifestyle. What you mean when you say lifestyle is male to male sex because a lifestyle is not sex it is how one lives and what things they do. You might like country western dancing so you would go often to such to dance and join in country events many Christians love country it is a life style which also includes Jesus first. You don’t say to a str8 person because you have sex with opposite sex it is your lifestyle. That would mean your day is only surrounded be having and finding sex with the opposite sex well maybe this is you I certain had an ear full of str8 that finding sex is their life’s goal it seems. Gays are like str8s there are millions of life styles. It is a homophobic pattern to lump gays into a word lifestyles. Romans 1:28-32 lists sins so this makes it easy when comparing to real gays I n the world today and throughout the past. Gays in real life are about as opposite as you can get to verses 28-32. It is a known fact if gays were fired from the health care system it would collapse, this was learned when an attempt to pass such a law in Washington state. Yes many str8 are good folk but they could not handle many fields with out gays co-workers, there just would not be enough to fill their shoes. In families gays are the pillars in family crisis, employers often say gays are their best workers. I can go on and on about gays. I have connection around the world to the fact about what real gays do and they do not do (a flagrant lifestyle of sin). Want sexual immorality str8s remain in complete control of the title being kings and queens of sexual immorality. Evil doers again str8 hold all records being the worst. How do you arrive at gays being (a flagrant lifestyle of sin) ? All you have is one fact “there gay” and that is all you got. Other facts about sex sins is str8s have 97% of the cases when it should be 90% . Tell me is it a pleasure to heap nasty sayings onto innocent people. I am always very very happy to hear facts. I have pleaded with you to explain how you get gay into the Bible. I have shown you info I have and I got tons more. If you say my info is wrong then show me your FACTS. We can go back and forth on this never convince either of us, but I have a ace up my sleeve. I have a Challenge clicking this link details something that would show gay is not sin right in front of your face. But hey anything a gay person says you would mock right? If it is something that might make you change your mind about gays you would reject it with out searching it out. Truth is fine for any topic but gays right? You will never spend an extra second on gays except to tell them insultingly they are evil.
I will not block you because of your name. I will block you anyone if they promote a sinful lifestyle on the page. I have done it before.

gays4jesus: This is really a horrible statement by you because you set in your assumption because there is the word gay in my name that that means I might promote a sinful lifestyle. Why can’t you go to my website online since 1985 http://gays4jesus.com or watch my weekly TV program “Sundays at 7AM pacific standard time at http://scantv.org since 1985 or read my blogs, which this reply of mine will be posted. I have said I was in the Assemblies of God for 35 years. Why do you first assume I must be going to have an orgy on your facebook? This is what is so offensive and you don’t even have a clue what your words say. Wouldn’t it be so nice that just once a homophobe could check someone out before they simply assume they are going to promote something. By your language I have to assume you think I will promote topless women’s rights or abortion or God if a woman or other radical themes in some gay groups. Sorry most gays do not fit in that sort of lifestyle. But many str8s fit is really bazaar lifestyles so when a str8 joins your group do you tell them because they are str8 you will block them if they promote some sort of ogrgyfest? Nope you would not even hint as to a warning, until they actually promote an orgyfest. What also you are hinting to is that your idea of promoting a sinful life style is like opening up a conversation on the verses used against gays. Why is that promoting a gay lifestyle? Isn’t truth what you seek and so if a topic asking for said proof be good? I would love it to hear some fact from those that think gay is sin. But like I asked you refuse to backup any verse though you quickly referred to a couple verses leaving them at an assumed gay is sin meaning. God is truth, truth should not hurt you. Currently you are forced to believe lies about gays and you know nothing else, I am telling there is more to the story than your conditioning. Do you really want to condemn 650 million people to hell without hope in God? If you think, God changes gays I am also an expert in the ex-gay ministries also PFLAG its counterpart. I am not anywhere to promote sin, I am everywhere to help people reach the end with their salvation intact. We are living in the days that deceptions are rampant so much so as to trick even the elect. Christian can choose and will in large number to turn their backs on Jesus, My ministry is to giving facts that will help a Christian stand fast to the end. Billions are about to be killed what are you doing to help Christian holdfast? A law in fact set to go into effect this Dec 31 is a law that controls food nutrition would wide, It will have devastating consequences. Population reduction also is in the Bible that 6 billion will be killed before Jesus returns. Shocking things will become normal. Darfur incidents will become commonplace in America. The TWO will shut off a connection to Jesus this will feel like Jesus forsook you (he did not) and so for the first time in 2000years we will truly have to live by faith because the hardwired connection will be broken. My concern is that Christians begin to prepare their minds for the shakeup of status quo. I don’t just jump in people usually want to know and either they can go to my site or correspond privately or if topics begin to engage in these sort of questions, I am not popping in to distort any site. But if people want to adamantly condemn gays without explanation then yes I will speak to that. Like I am going at length with you because you just won’t budge and inch on your conditioned belief about gays. If you really believe gay is sin then study will back you up and you can present what you find. But you just won’t at all even hint that even you are actually ignorant on the topic and it is only from birth you were told gay was sin and to you when you read those few verses you did not think anything else need be done. Gays are not gang rapists and male temple prostitutes and that is whatyou are calling them. I want you to stop that and go read about it and come up with like what I have shown you the original meanings of the words. Perry certainly goes into detail about many words so why can’t you take some time to research both sides. You won’t die if you go to a site like Gay Christian 101 where you can read the 76 times the word arsenokoites was use in the 1,600 years after Paul used it in 1 Cor 6:9. Can you imagine so many Christians rely on arsenokoites to condemn gays and yet it is in documented form the entire articles written by Christian scholars only 76 times in 1600 years. None of those 76 times was it talking about gays. Now if I tell you 76 times you should be able to prove me wrong easy right. After Perry a TV preacher, hey don’t you have resources to study? Show how arsenokoites means gays and how Christians used arsenokoites to say gay is sin. Show me how you get gays into a story about str8 adults turning from GOD to gods in Romans. But I bet you won’t even take the time to read what I am writing.

Again, I KNOW you put the quote in about modern translations, but I sent you the letter because of others in the group.

gays4jesus: WELL did you go look at Westcott and Hort?

If you have an issue, leave a post on the wall. I never had an issue with your name.

gays4jesus: My ministry is to encourage Christians to keep the faith because great deceptions are coming. In most churches it is a sweet gathering only to entertain and have warm fuzzy with the Lord and other. Nothing wrong with this, but it is not last century anymore and even last week. We are the LAST DAYS’ Christians and life as we know it will change. Christians are not at the top of the list of desirable citizens in the coming kingdom and plenty of factual institutions exist to rid the world of Christians. I wish you could see what I see, changing over to the 1000 year reign of Christ means first antichrist’s kingdom which means no magic one day we got antichrist’s kingdom. It is a process and great suffering will happen in route to the declaration of a one would gov’t system. I don’t have issues except that if a person wants to say something that condemn 650 million people they better have some backup. God is not slack he is not going to ignore persecution of innocent people by his people forever. There is a set time that God will move to answer the prayers of those persecuted innocent ones by His people.

By your picture let me judge you since you judge me by a word in my name. I do not know if that really is your picture so I will assume like you that it is. You are black. How did you get the freedoms you have? Believe me I think you are human and not a race to be discriminated against. I am talking facts. For a long time in the USA blacks were not allowed to even preach to themselves or learn to read. If a white Christian taught a black to read they were in dire sin and would go to hell. White Christian slave owners could legally rape their slaves often this included girls. Black with help and PRAYER began to be set free, this took a long time. It was also largely secular and also Christian against Christian. I assume you know the story of Black rights even today we still have big problems. Were Christians right to treat blacks that way. Should I go into details of the struggles blacks had on their road to equal rights. Part of what I am saying that God is very much behind a fight for freedoms often it is secular. And often it is Christians against these freedoms. Today we can look back at many errors in the church and know better today. When I was in high school a white person marrying a black person was about as evil as you can get and this was in California not the south. Well today interracial marriages are nearly completely accepted.

The big hypocrisy here is people that has a history of fighting for equal rights and they were so persecuted even killed can now persecute others who are doing like their ancestors did standing up for their human rights. You being black I wonder do you have a conscious? I would think you could even hate Christians because white Christian recent ancestors often rape the slave black women. And Christians would not allow you to preach.

I hate needing to use your picture indicating you are black to point out that of all peoples you should understand the fight for human rights. I have had many many many many black people call me up and talk for hours condemning me because I am gay. They are fresh out of Christian persecution and slavery and they can so easily slip into condemning people in the same manner they were condemned. ROOTs was fiction, but based on tons of fact, I watched the original series, it was a fantastic story over centuries. It could almost be one of the most informing movies I have seen. I wonder have you seen ROOTS? But on top of the fight for freedom blacks have at least they were visible, you can’t know a gay person by looking at them most of the time. Black was granted eternal life by Christians but not equal rights. Gays are not given a hope of a chance for eternal life, you not only kill gays you don’t give them a hope in God. In 1967 God gave Catholic gays pastors, in 1969 God gave Protestant gays pastors, in 1969 God gave secular power to stand up and begin the rights movement. Up to now both Catholic and protestant gays have matured they have done the foot work, they got the facts and dug deep into the Bible and brought out what it says. Secular gays fought through marches and courts and ballot. These 3 groups brought us in 4 decades from zero acceptance to over 50% acceptance. This is without the Pentecostal gays doing anything. Pentecostal gays like other Pentecostals once the fire it lit mighty move of God occurs. Azusa street was an example for the modern Pentecostals. They got TBN and faith healing going. DayStar I am not sure how it started certainly seems to be catching up with TBN. Soon Pentecostal gays will be turned loose by God so you will see a great move of God. A side effect of this will be God moving on the side of gays in the sight of those that are condemning them. You can’t know this because you are wrapped up in the false doctrine against gays.

Once again I apologize for feeling I need to bringing up you being black (at least my assumption) but it is a powerful comparison because you understand how people treat you or your ancestors and you don’t have to go back very many years to se public degrading.

Your words to me is the same you assume black is inferior right? So you can condemn blacks right? It is easy to call blacks any name you want and lie about them saying they are all rapist and murderer and thieves tight? I am being harsh hoping to break through to your heart that gays are not what you are conditioned to believe. Don’t treat gays like white Christians treated blacks.

I hope you have a great night.

gays4jesus: Thanks I did have a good night. Tomorrow I will go to Victoria BC to do a couple TV programs.
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Monday, November 16, 2009

Terrell Mims sent you a message on Facebook...

 

Really quick response back from Terrel, But as you will note he certainly did not even attempt to explain why he says gay is sin below he just  says “Homosexuality is out of the natural order of God” then sort of quotes Leviticus. I so wished he would have explained, I know he can’t because he just doesn’t know there is info on Leviticus showing  the verse is not talking about gays.

From:
Terrell Mins

To:
John Gaysforjesus <gays4jesus@yahoo.com>


Terrell sent you a message.
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Re: Hi
Hi John,
First, I want you to know that the whole reason I sent you a message was because OTHER members of the group questioned your motives. I read your post and have no issue with you.
Now, what I do have issue is with the whole "YOU" thing. I don't have an issue with you personally. I don't know you.
Yes, fornication between straight adults is a sin because EVERY sexual act outside of marriage between man and a woman is a sin. I put that list in because I am not a gay-basher. I love all people, but I must tell the truth. Homosexuality is out of the natural order of God. God made man and woman. The Bible says God does not change and he said "Man should not lie with man as with a woman. It is an abomination." However, every sin (lying, stealing, blasphemy, hate) will send us to Hell and only be repenting (turning from and forsaking) sin and turning to Jesus we will be saved.
You said you saw miracles and answered prayer. AWESOME!  Remember, Jesus said "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name and done miracles and I will tell them depart from me you worker of iniquity (a flagrant lifestyle of sin) I never knew you.
I will not block you because of your name. I will block you anyone if they promote a sinful lifestyle on the page. I have done it before.
Again, I KNOW you put the quote in about modern translations, but I sent you the letter because of others in the group. If you have an issue, leave a post on the wall. I never had an issue with your name.
I hope you have a great night.
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Perry Stone’s FaceBook spokes person Terrell Mims warns me

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Terrell must be a spokes person for Perry Stone’s Ministry and he saw the word gay in my screen name though nothing about gays was written by me Terrell felt I needed to be warned that not to talk about gays. Below is my first entry on their wall:

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John Gaysforjesus
Hi Happy Thanks-Giving Just wondering if anyone can address modern version Bibles? It seems that Westcott and Hort of the 1880s got their translation to become the Official Church of England's Bible where all Modern versions have their real roots in. If these TWO men had such powerful influence on today's Christian Bible shouldn't we have a better understanding on how we got modern versions. Is there really something to Westcott and Hort? I really think it important that we have some sort of recognition of such powerfully influential sources that really no one talks about in general preaching. Thanks for any insight into the real sources of modern versions

Yesterday at 2:36pm · Comment · Like ·

Looks like a good general question for discussion on origins of modern versions, what would inspire Terrell to message me with a warning?

Then I wrote a comment to help someone asking for help about their past years:

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Kevin DeLaune Pastor Perry Stone.... I really wish you could explain Hebrews 6: 4-6 and Hebrews 10: 26-29. I was caught up in DELIBERATE WILLFUL SIN for the past year. I KNEW what God told me NOT to do and yet I kept on doing it! I want God back so much, but I'm afraid God has now rejected me. Those verses DO state that. Please help!

So I commented:

Yesterday at 2:49pm · Report

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John Gaysforjesus

it sounds like a lot of assumption may be present in your life about something you were doing for a year? Someone must have told you your acts which you just out of the blue started doing is sin so you just decided you will keep acting this behavior for one year. Sorry sin is not that way. If you gradually got into something and it took sort of over and you got addicted it is not applicable to the verses you refer to. God told you or did man tell you? You left a lot out of your request. If you saw something in the Bible and so say God told you via yours or others interpretation then God might not have told you. You do not fall out of Grace easily, it is a willful choosing of other gods by willfully turning to other gods that puts you in jeopardy of loosing salvation. Jesus loves you and always has open arms for you, he never forsook you and he won't let anyone take you from him. If you truly think what you did was willful sin, do a reality check and search truth for truth will set you free, but God is right next to you He never left you. Unless you get more detailed about what you did for that year no sin list of the Church matters. One sin gets you hell so all will be in hell because all are doing willful acts of sin daily. We are in a life long journey to be ready for everlasting life. John 3:16 is the requirement, pick yourself up and get on with your relationship with Jesus. I will be happy to go into more detail if you like to get into detail about your year of deliberate sin.

Yesterday at 2:58pm ·

You can add your comments for Kevin too in this box for that facebook. So you see I had simply made comments that had nothing to do with gay issues yet Terrell replied with in a day saying he is the creator of the group also a misrepresentation to me because the name of the group is:

clip_image001[1]Perry Stone: The Baddest Preacher Walking in Shoe Leather”

It is easy to assume it is Perry’s site. But yes yes lots of Christian minister do not want to be bothered and so either have others do it for them or others just creates a site in their name. So here is Terrel’s message to me:

Hi

Between You and Terrell Mims

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Terrell Mims November 16 at 11:47am Report

Hi John,
I am the creator of this group. I just want to send you a message. Several members of the group told me about your name GaysforJesus.
I want you to know you are welcome to the group. God loves all people, but hates sin. I am not speaking for Perry Stone, but he believes like I do that homosexuality is a sin and a deception from Satan. Again, God loves all people, but he hates all sin (lying, stealing, hate, lust, homosexuality, murder.) We do not condone the gay lifestyle.
You are welcome to contribute to the the group as long as there is no promotion of the GLBT lifestyle.

So I wrote back with:

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John Gaysforjesus November 16 at 2:27pm

The only thing I would ever do is ask the question of how you get gays into a verse. As you state "homosexuality is a sin and a deception from Satan" It just the sort of thing I would like an answer to. In my 25 years preaching weekly on TV I have yet to find any Christian that believes gay is sin to go into detail as to they get gays into a verse. A person like Perry certainly acts knowledgeable. Wouldn't you think a person like him could go into detail as how to get Hebrew or Greek words in the Bible to mean gay? As best as I can come up with from those that say gay is sin is not much more than "its in the Bible" God hates it" "you are going to hell" or a verse is quoted with no further explanations. Perry like many TV preachers or other ministers go into deep detail on about every topic. Whole programs are spent digging into as much as one verse to show its history and day it was written. I am just hoping beyond hope if this so called love that is proclaimed by ministers could ever take the time to present such efforts to show that indeed a word for male temple prostitute really does mean more than a sacred male in a fertility temple of Paul's or Moses' day. Cybele the mother of the gods has a temple in Rome I shot one of my TV programs there recently. Cybele was about as important a figure as any god could be in Paul's day. Paul saw a fertility temple on every corner. I just would like to hear someone like Perry use his expert knowledge to show where the gays were and what Paul's words meant gays. I fully expert you as a representative of Perry will completely reject what I am asking. I cannot possibly understand why many Christian just refuse to explain why they condemn gays. I have been in the Assemblies of God for 35 years. It is strange that Christian not knowing one is gay will say such wonderful things about that gay person as to how much they see Jesus in them. I have had over 200 Pentecostal pastors call me up publicly for prophecy to say such wonderful things from God to me. But when a pastor know I am gay no attempt whatsoever is done to asked about my walk with Jesus. Love is known by its behavior show your love by your behavior and explain how you get gang rape to be gay is sin. There are 14 verses used against gays 7 use the word for male temple prostitute, if gay is sin you should be able to use the Bible and explain how any verse, phase, or word is talking about real gays. I do not promote the GLBT I just ask for explanation why you say gay is sin. In case you simply reject my asking at least I will state something I thing is so extremely important to all Christians in these Last Days. Westcott and Hort translated a corrupt version of the Bible that became the official church of England's Bible where all modern versions comes from having 50,000 to 80,000 corruptions designed to take Christ out of Jesus. If you use a modern version your gut should feel so defiled because of the deception of satan. Only the KJV that is readily available is from the Received text (original copies of the originals). This is even more hard to understand about Many Christians, the biggest deception isn't even a consideration to them. I hope when you read this you will start a personal study on Westcott and Hort they are more evil than just getting their translation into all modern versions.

Then I thought whatever gave him the notion to jump on my case, because what I had wrote in both entries had nothing at all to do with gays so it had to be all in the name “gaysforjesus” so I added another comment:

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John Gaysforjesus November 16 at 3:03pm

Hmmm I read my original and only post. How did you decide to jump on my case? I would understand it if I came on attacking Perry's ministry, but I did not I was very nice and seeking important info on a topic that effects everyone. I just wished everyone a Happy Thanks giving and I just asked if anyone could talk about modern version Bibles. What is your position in Perry's Ministry maybe I need to go visit him and ask him why he has people working for him that will jump on someone just because you saw the word gay in a screen name. Asking questions on the topic modern versions is not even close to gay related. But still you At least apologize won't you? If you have issues about the Bible and gays yes I am the expert and can answer your questions. I have quite a walk with Jesus many miracle and 3 major dramatic instant physical healings. I have 1000s of answered prayers. There is the other side of the story. For YOU it is an issue because YOU saw the word gay in my screen name and that was enough for you to tell me I am in a sin list of yours (lying, stealing, hate, lust, homosexuality, murder.) Why not add born again str8 single Christians have sex on the first date 69%, or the 60% divorce rate for Christians. The static was a TBN accepted source. I have joined many Facebooks of many Ministers that are well known and are on DayStar and TBN. To date only joining Perry Stone have I gotten a comment back to threaten to block me because of my screen name. I do get comments back on the other facebooks, even though many Christians think gay is sin they are discussing it and usually negatively but a representative of the ministry does not come and tell me if I blink wrong I'll be booted. Once again I offer out a hand in Christian love to help you with your walk in Jesus Christ. We are about out of time and there are things you need to prepare for concerning the Last Days. My ministry is about the Last Days and also is is a faith healing ministry. You know Pentecostals don't you well that means many Pentecostals are on fire for the Lord. So feel free to make comments in my facebook and on my blog. Visit my webpage http://gays4jesus.com Don't judge a person by a word in their name.

"The Stables Ministries" "Gays For Jesus"

Source: gays4jesus.com

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Wednesday, November 11, 2009

Pastor Ken Hutcherson FaceBook Wall

This is on Pastor Ken Hutcherson FaceBook Wall

Ken is very outspoken in the anti-gay camp and worked hard to defeat Ref 71 (same as marriage bill)

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My 1st comment on Ken’s FaceBook:

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John Gaysforjesus Hey hi all you wonderful people. I am investigating why people say gay is sin and they use certain verses. I have talked with over 800,000 Christian that adamantly condemn gays, none offer explanation of how they get gays into any verse they use. Will anyone here explain it to me?

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November 6 at 9:18am · Comment · Like ·

Right away, I got a comment on my comment:

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Chuck Panarella

The words 'condemn gays' is out of place. We have all escaped from a life of sin. The only thing the homosexual movement does is enslave a person caught up in that sin. We don't condemn, but offer a way out. The same way out is offered to the Liar, the playboy who sleeps around and to anyone who calls on the name of Jesus.

Mon at 4:22pm ·

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John Gaysforjesus

And as usual we have a person just flat out condemning gays without any attempt to explain how any verse talks about real gays. Chuck Please I beg you use the Bible and the Hebrew and Greek, explain history tell us how gang rape means gay is sin or male temple prostitutes means gay is sin. A playboy is a str8 man that loves porn and multiple sexual partners so way are you comparing str8 sexual immorality to gays. Just like the Bible you use a verse that says gang rape as a way to say gay is sin. Truth sets people free, if you need info about the ex-gay ministries and their failures I would be glad to talk to you about that too. I know a lot about that movement so can give you facts. I am still waiting for someone like Chuck to explain how he gets gays into a verse he may use to say gay is sin. Yesterday at 8:58am

Right away “again”, I got a comment back:

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Chuck Panarella

Honestly John, if you read what i said carefully it is Romans 3:23. You can twist yourself into a scriptural pretzel trying to prove that a physical union of two men or two women is blessed by God, but it just isn't so.
Read Romans 1:18-32, 1 timothy 1:8-10 and just a basic understanding of Creation order. It was through the union of a man and a women that God worked creative order.

Yesterday at 3:50pm ·

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John Gaysforjesus

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (KJV)

Yes indeed all have SINNED, but your implication specifically is that gay is sin, not a general all have sinned. You are the one twisting God’s word to suite your desire to condemn gays. Because I am gay does not evoke Rom. 3:23. Rom 3:23 is in place because you and I are humans. What you are doing is saying gay is sin, this is the issue and the issue I stated was for you to explain any verse you may use to say gay is sin. It is you that is saying in an automatic conditioned respond gay is sin and so I ask you how get that in a verse. You did exactly what I said homophobes do and that is the part that you just state a verse. You used Rom. 18-32. You want me to read it. I have been in the Assemblies of God for 36 years and I have been preaching on TV for 25 years, I am sure I do know that verse since it is the main verse homophobes used so often out of the 14 verses generally used which it comes down to 4 actual verses. & verses use the word for “male temple prostitute” so we can count that as one verse since they all mean the same. We can go into each of those verses if you like. Romans1:18-32 tell me why you cannot explain it to me. I bet all you can do is say it is simple and clear. However, absolutely it starts by saying str8 adults turned from GOD to gods. In verse, 24-25 a change takes place generated by GOD. If you are correct, str8s turned gay in these 2 verses. However, homophobes do not use 18-32 they use most often just 26-27.

5446 phusikos (foo-see-kos'); from 5449; physical", i.e. (by implication) instinctive: KJV-- natural. Compare 5591. 5449 phusis (foo'-sis); from 5453; growth (by germination or expansion), i.e. (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension, a genus or sort; figuratively, native disposition, constitution or usuage: KJV-- ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).

The Greek words defined themselves as how you were born not what you decided to change to be. It adds a garanteer in the word Instinct. What verse 24 begins is str8s as you are wishing decide to be gay. Worst still is verse 26-27 description of an incredibly vile picture which is so descriptive that if gays were being described you can see it without effort. REAL life gays do not behavior at all like 26-27 suggests. What makes you hate it so much is your own desires for females and so it makes you sick to image same sex sex. So what you do with females meaning before you married you dated your wife, fell in love, then married her. Problem is you may have also had sex with other women, as it is rare to have Christian str8 men to not have had sex before marriage. However, even whatever you did you are believing it is a normal str8 system to end up married and it is not vile. You know gang rape is vile and you know orgies is vile and other abusive and pleasure only seeking str8 sex. Now we go to Romans in the word of God. Paul really went to a famous fertility temple in Corinth; in that temple were over 1000 temple prostitutes and many orgy rooms. Also, in that temple was that statue to the unknown god.

In Athens, there was a temple specifically dedicated to that god and very often Athenians would swear "in the name of the Unknown god" Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. (KJV)

Both in Rome and in Corinth Paul saw a fertility temple on every corner, just like we see a church on every corner today. What God gave them (the THEY people that turned from GOD to gods) was to join in the ritual orgies in these fertility temples. In that specific temple there were known to be over 1000 temple prostitutes. How did you arrive at the verse is talking about gays. In verse 28-32, lets look:

Rom 1:28-32 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (KJV)

Now let’s look at real gays in todays’ world (you can also look at the past gays were the same) it is a known if gays were banned from the health care system (this was attempted in the last couple decades in Washington state) THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WOULD DISINTEGRATE. Employers say gays are their best workers, At my job at a large company we have many gays and they are indeed the best workers. In families during crisis is common to see the gay family member to take charge and see the family through the crisis. I could spend a lot of time on the good deeds of gays that are very very opposite verse 28-32. What I ask you to day is explain how you get gays into 18-32 and all you did was tell me to read it.

1 Tim 1:8-10 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; (KJV)

It was Christian legal to own concubines up too the 11th century. What LAW? The Law of Moses? How do you interpret the LAW? “if a man use it lawfully”? huh? Who says how to use it “lawfully”? YOU? To obey the LAW is obey ALL the LAW, I am not saying abandon the LAW I am saying if you are going to use the LAW then obey that LAW yourself. What you want to say is all gays are criminals. Bet you will come back to say I am twisting your words, but this is what I mean you need to explain how you get what you get in a verse especially if it is going to send 650 million people to hell. Again your choice of a verse indicates because you did not explain what you are meaning or explaining the verse you imply no gays are saved and you are evoking a list of sins to place gays in. Earlier I mention a anti-gay from Oregon came to Washington to make gay banned from the work place including any str8 supporters, what they wrote in the ballot petition would be by law placing gays in a list comparable to sex with animals, this would also put many “races” in this class too. It was tossed because that Christian group covered the flap so that could not be read so lying to potential signers. This verse is used because it has the word for “male temple prostitute in it “arsenokoites”. Paul wrote this word that means “sodomite that means “male temple prostitute”. Interesting about this word “arsenokoites” we have documentation on it for the next 1600 years since Paul wrote it down. The documentation is from Christian authors ministers. The entire article is intact to this day and you can read each instance of it being documented. ONLY 76 times in that 1600 years was this word used in Christendom. Never was it used to talk about gays. Generally, it talked about sex out of species. 1600 years is a very interesting for that was the time Protestants fully adopted the 100-year-old Catholic anti-gay doctrine they invented to create scandal to purge leaders from power that did not have the same ideals.

4205 pornos (por'-nos); from pernemi (to sell; akin to the base of 4097); a (male) prostitute (as venal), i.e. (by analogy) a debauchee (libertine): KJV-- fornicator, whoremonger. 733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace); from 730 and 2845; a sodomite: KJV-- abuser of (that defileself) with mankind.

Male prostitute in the 1 Tim:8-10 does not mean gay prostitute. In Paul’s day gigolo escort service provided by str8 males to female customers were quite common, almost unheard of if not near non-existant wwere gay ordinary prostitutes, However, sacred fertility male prostitutes as shown in 733’s sodomite which is the same as the Hebrew’s 6945:

qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh. This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin.

Does clearly show it is not your average gay that is looking to meet someone for a date to fall in love then marry which is what “GAY” means.

6763 tsela` (tsay-law'); or (feminine) tsal` ah (tsal-aw'); from 6760; a rib (as curved), literally (of the body) or figuratively (of a door, i.e. leaf); hence, a side, literally (of a person) or figuratively (of an object or the sky, i.e. quarter); architecturally, a (especially floor or ceiling) timber or plank (single or collective, i.e. a flooring): KJV-- beam, board, chamber, corner, leaf, plank, rib, side (chamber).

If you take time to study RIB you will find Adam’s RIB is taking about a CELL, which we now know has DNA. Steve was in the DNA. Also Your idea about God’s plan starts with sex between siblings. This sort of things takes a lot o f time to evolve to cousins in the same tribe and all this is done with strict arranging marriage by family patriarchs. The, as you say without back up, creative order got a first act that males would feel in their guts that they own the females period and we have fought this ever since and it takes laws to force us to treat the woman fairly.

Gen 3:16-18 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (KJV)

“and he shall have rule over thee” was this God’s plan or was it the results of Adam joining Eve’s sin of eating that Apple? Try to keep in mind it is str8s that devised abortion as for gays throughout history they had children and today it is common to find gay couples with kids. Some biological some adopted.

Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (KJV)

You seem to love to try to break apart what God has joined together. I have been with my lover for 20 years and you would never consider asking for testimony of what Jesus is doing in my life. You would never even have come to mind to think about having any gay Christian give testimony would you on anything in their walk with Jesus. Do you think for a second that because you don’t ask that that stops any relationship Jesus has with anyone?

Once again I ask you to go into explanation, bring to be why you think gay is sin, truth sets people free and so if you so believe the Bible condemns gays why won’t you walk through the verses explaining them And go into history of the Bible days to show how Moses or Paul talked about real ordinary gays. Remember up to now y u acted like all the homophobes of the 800,000 that I have talked to, now this 800,000 I stopped counting over a decade ago. So can you be the first? The most educated Bible scholars will go no further than I saying it’s in the Bible, it’s simple, it’s clear, read this verse, or other phrase that avoid the how you got gays into the phrase you think it is in.

clip_image002[3]You can write a follow up comment that will post on Ken Hutcherson’s FaceBook Wall:

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