Thursday, June 3, 2010

ASSEMBLIES OF GOD Gay Pentecostals

ASSEMBLIES OF GODclip_image002

Assemblies of God is the largest Pentecostal church, but of all the denominations it has the least gay outreaches. Meaning most denominations you can do a search and find a group that caters to gay Christians of that denomination. clip_image004


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Missing though is Pentecostal gays. Now there are some Pentecostals listed of which 95% plus are like:

Apostolic Pentecostal, Gay-affirming Christian Pentecostal (point here is the word affirming), United Pentecostal, and some more. What is more hard to find is openly associated to Assemblies of God. Of course the Assemblies is publicly and in doctrine very strict against gays, no AOG pastor would go against this doctrine at risk of being kicked out (many have been indeed kicked out for this). This though is true about these other kinds of Pentecostals. Now what is different is Assemblies of God generally considers other Pentecostal denominations maybe a cult Christian group. Four Square Church is the closest to Assemblies of God and generally has almost the same beliefs.

Now these other Pentecostals usually are very strict in doctrines and obedience to their doctrines. They are nearly a full-fledged cult in my book. They take repentance doctrine to high levels to a term which is summed up in “holier than thou” They expect what really is extremely difficult for humans to live by. Next step would be Puritans or Quaker like life styles. I am being extreme only to point out that they are not really willing to accept other denominations (maybe in public statements). Usually in my conversations with them theirs is the only church that will go to heaven type deal. There is no room to go independent and study Bible for yourself. Meaning it is their way or the hiway.

The is also the fully standalone individuals that say they don’t need nothing but the Bible. They do not and often never do step inside a church, but they talk to you like they have absolute correct interpretation of the Bible.

I have been in the Assemblies of God since February 1974 and I right away liked it. I quickly associated with the Pentecostal aspect because Jesus was so real and alive in me from the start. I began speaking in tongues from the get go. However, I spent 2 years before I accepted Jesus not accepting anyone’s words unless there were backup. Assemblies had a very strong background and though believed The Bible and the repentance/holiness thing, they did so moderately leaving freedom to do any personal searching of truth to its members. Assemblies did not require strict adherence, it was just a place to go worship and praise God and hear fairly good teaching. People generally were themselves and not worshiping the pastor as it almost seems in those other Pentecostal type churches (again I am exaggerating none of them are like a Jim Jones). Now assemblies of course had the usual extreme anti-gay doctrine. Generally, it seems that any other sin can be forgiven and those sinners treated decently even though the sins were heinous for sure they open arms bring them back or minister to them respectfully. Gays on the other hand is you have to become str8 to be forgiven or accepted by them. Truth is of no importance to Most pastors of Assemblies of God Churches concerning gays. Lies from every angle is a good practice towards and about gays. So, for me the major problem with Assemblies of God is their gay doctrine. What real choice to Assemblies of God type gays have? Really there is no choice of other churches. I spent around 7 years going to Metropolitan Church, some were very good churches, its founder even was a Four Square pastor. But MCC is an interfaith church and an inclusive language church. This does work well for non-Pentecostals. Pentecostal is a significant word meaning a great deal. It means Acts Chapter 2 tongues, healing, and the many gifts in operation. This is 100% not condoned in most gay churches that are open to all Christian faiths. So the Pentecostal gay has to sit on their hands to keep them under control during services.

Other gay churches are denomination specific and so are already not Pentecostal. Some a very good as many denomination do have beliefs like Assemblies of God except Acts Chapter 2. So Assemblies of God gays has to stay in Assemblies of God and pretend to be str8 to get general fulfillment of the worship/praise style they are comfortable with and just block the gay condemnation that often is used in sermons to makes points about sin.

The first 12 years I never miss a service or guest speaker of workshop the church. I moved to Seattle and in 1985 I began preaching on TV an openly gay Pentecostal preacher. Now before this AOG pastors everywhere I went called me up to the alter. Probably over 200 time in a 10 year period. They were very specific God had a message for me. They operating in the Word of Knowledge or Prophecy told me fabulous from the Lord. How much God loved me and how much I loved him and what was to be in my future (most has come to pass, others aren’t ready to happen, but continues to be confirms it will happen). They gave this word in front of 1000s in their congregations. Most of the time it was supplemented with another person up on the platform with the pastor with additional Word from God. Now the people there and anywhere and in many other denomination I attended because I had a job that required I take groups of about 20 to their churches and Sundays schools so week by week for many years I spent quality time in a good number of churches sitting with the people I had to take to church. Pastors in those churches (note: I just can'’ seem to step in a church without some comment about Jesus in me that they see) always talk to me and say their impression about me is I am a man of God.

Once I moved to Seattle and started on TV right away this changed. New set of pastors new Assemblies churches, they only difference is they see the word gay in “gays4jesus” and so without even giving a second or 2 thought about my walk for the past decades with Jesus or asking about my testimony they say I am going to hell. The stories that came from otherwise decent pastor makes your head spend. One pastor that once wrote an unsigned letter to me and handed it to me in church after a couple weeks where his wife in the back row and he at the podium would mock me in the congregation. The letter when said and done said if I so much as blink he would call the police. ALL I ever did was listen to his sermon and join in the usual singing and worship as anyone does when they go to church. Later this pastor was getting calls from a homeless gay 16 yr. old with aids he told him to call me. Well I cannot and did not and never implied I could give help to anyone with such needs to any needs, I was on TV free and I am not rich it just could not happen I could help so here I was talking to this person who told me that pastor sent him to me. We had otherwise a good phone talk, but I thought it strange a pastor that showed such disregard to me was pushing off a person really in need which his large church could have easily gave some assistance. That pastor also did several other weird things concerning how he responded to others about me. In his church his congregation was generally really nice to me apparently not effected by him mocking me.

Another pastor told 2 kids to call me and they called daily, finally I was about to get them to talk as to why they were calling. They told me their pastor told them to call me. I called that church and by the date he had taken a vacation just after he told those kids to call me.

I had to come out to another pastor where I had attended for a couple years. Really good Assemblies of God. That pastor and his assistant pastor came to Seattle to open and Assemblies of God church because they heard a prophecy from a Russian prophet while that pastor was in Russia. That prophet said he never heard of Seattle but a mighty move of God would grow out from there. When I told him I was gay he like so many first assumed I was coming to get his help to change and be str8, I really had to confront him that I was not there to become str8 but to just tell him due to other matters. He then began as it were quoting verses (not related to gays) but he would like say half the verse and inside my head I heard the rest of that first which completely made his attempt to use the verse misused. I was surprised to hear the other half of verses he used in my head. It was like he wanted to show gay is wrong (using non related verses) but the fact is a Bible verse is a Bible verse and you can’t pick a phrase to fit your wish. After which I was standing my ground (although cautiously, I was not expecting his nearly violent reaction) he finally said we might as well toss the Bible to emphasize a point that if gay was not sin then the Bible must be a lie. He threw his Bible clear across the room to make his point. I was shocked. Now I knew the Bible inside and out especially concerning the verses used against gays and I knew beyond doubt what they meant and they were not talking about gays. On the drive home I “complained” against God saying how dare I stand up against your servant (even if that servant is wrong). I continued; if a person stands up against a shepherd, a pastor, a called servant then there absolutely has to be confirmation form God authorizing this action. I pleaded with God that I never had any background from God calling me to speak up in this fashion to tell a pastor what the Bible says about things and coming as it were against that pastor. After I calmed down a bit nearing home, God said re-read Ezekiel 34. I knew what God meant because ever since I accepted Jesus the Bible would fall open to that book and chapter at chapter 1. I could not explain why this happened, no matter the Bible or the version (in those days I did not know all modern versions were satan counterfeit Bibles), I picked up Bible in church pews and they fell open to that page. I just began taking it for granted. I could not understand the harsh tone it started with towards leaders in the Church:

34:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feedthemselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

34:3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.

34:4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up [that which was] broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

34:5 And they were scattered, because [there is] no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.

What I saw when I saw the Assemblies of God pastors were very decent God fearing men whose hearts seemed devoted to truth and faith in Jesus Christ. Yes, the doctrine against gays sure was heinous, but hey my opinion then was it was a huge church (meaning 2000 years of Christianity and today so many churches all with anti-gay doctrines and so powerful and completely no support anywhere so no way ever can person make a difference let alone me. I just figured when we all get to Heaven God would tell them so just go to church and worship/praise and minister as I could and just know they will think gay is sin so just keep it secret.

That day God told me to re-read the whole chapter was a decade plus after doing lots of reading and learning concerning gays all over the world and in history, and deepening my knowledge about the verse pertaining to those used to condemn gays. I actually knew more than any pastor did by that time. I had sent letters and got letters back form about every well know household name minister. Paul Crouch and Jan Crouch even hand wrote letters back to me. I also knew details about hundreds of ex-gay ministries and their leader/founders. I had not read Ezekiel 34 for quite some time by then, but it still always opened to that page. I shut up my complaining to God (emotionally charged complaining) when God said re-read it and remained quiet the rest the way home. And so I re-read it. I was astounding it the words leaped out at me with meaning I really never saw before. Tears flooded down my face and I couldn’t really speak it was so profound.

What I saw was encapsulated in Ezekiel 34 was the gay story and how it was treated by God’s people. Note: I also have learned many minority groups had long used that chapter for their causes. I saw that the manner this book and chapter came to me and its effect on me was that over 12 years God was telling me he called me to this type ministry. I could not understand its meaning until I knew about gays in history and all over the world and Church history and how they treated gays and the story behind how they invented the anti-gay doctrine some 700 plus years ago. And these otherwise decent pastor turn to appear demon possess when they see the word gay. Soon afterwards a anti-lesbian woman preaching on public access was not really preaching on the gay issue but example after example in her message was condemning lesbians. This took the cake for me because not only all TV and churches condemned gays this free speech free access and this woman attacking lesbians and it made no sense to her message. I was stupid did not know the first thing about getting on TV and was about as shy as anyone can be. Put people in front of me and I clam up. I wrote to her (pin in hand I was not shy at all), she wrote back demanding I never write to her again she feared her office staff would get aids from touching my envelope.

Follow-up on that pastor above, after getting on TV for a little while a viewer called me saying he recognized me from that church and we had talked a number of times. He said some corruption regarding tithes, then a church fire, a breakup of the pastor and his assistant (as ministry co-partners) and that that pastor took time off finally going on a church circuit on the road. The info was this was not a fun time for that pastor, guess you are not supposed to toss the Bible across the room.

So I now began to see the Rapture just will not happen until the Church gets the gay issue str8nd out. Meaning gay is not sin. Since I began, now since 1985 in daily Christian chat rooms and weekly TV (now even a 24/7 site to air my programs none stop) I know the Church will go through a lot of shaking because of Ezekiel 34, not just because the gay issue but for all the Church wide disobedience for the last 2000 years. But I find more and more the gay issue is far more significant than anyone could guess. When I started know publicly seen support now 26 years later it is floating around 60% support in the USA, the marriage issue kept this back for a while but this now is dropping from an impediment.

Still missing after all these years is the many gays in Assemblies of God. It is still hard for many to accept God will used them as much as he used any str8 Assemblies of God man or woman. The Pentecostal movement has brought intensive growth in presenting the gospel around the world that every eye can see. Several major Christian TV networks are Pentecostal powered as it were, we have two major worldwide Christian networks TBN and Daystar that seem most popular. TBN started a couple months before I got saved and I lived nearby so saw it when Paul sat in a tellers cage with a fussy transmitted signal. They grew fast and after I moved to Seattle and turned on TBN at that moment (a number of times) they were talking specifically about my ministry “Gays For Jesus” in Seattle. I was supposedly going to crash Doug Clark’s (the guest that night on Praise the Lord) rally. I did not know I was going to do that heh heh. I called them and told them they were lying through their teeth about me what is normal for many in the church concerning gays. But even so we do know TBN started with Paul mortgaging his house and his faith God will move in starting TBN. We have many stories about God moving Amongst Pentecostals. As Pentecostals we see faith healing and other moves of God by publicly str8 ministers. I say publically str8 because there are gay faith healers and in the early 80s one name Brant Baker secretly gay healed many broadcasted on TBN. I went to several live rallies and saw the healing first hand. Today you can find sited dedicated to Brant so we now can get his story, but for decades Paul Crouch effectively erased Brant’s name from the Christian record, he told Benny Hinn to fill the gap Brant left. (a story behind that one).

Gay Pentecostal needs to now step up to the plate to bat. It is our turn at bat. Non-Pentecostals did the groundwork and paved the road and many Pentecostal gays worked with no fanfare laying a foundation. I would say most gays have no clues what 1967 meant when the first gays began getting shepherds (Catholics) 1968 (Protestants) 1969 (secular gays). These so many years laid the foundation to a move like the world never seen before. Assemblies of God type gays it is your turn to bat to make all this strong foundation to fulfill what all People of God has been waiting for, his return. This can’t happen till we take out turn at bat.

I have been physically dramatically instantly healed 3 times and many with lesser fanfare that don’t have the frills of getting a good zap. Now saying it like that does not take away from the actual healing, being sick is not a fun thing and being really sick and in great pain and crying out to God in Jesus name in that pain and then having that healing poured out on you is quite the experience. God’s love, tears of joys and much more beside the feeling of the sick leaving and not just leaving by a simple fading but a odd As it were process that defies biological process. How can you just get well in second from a sickness that you should be in the hospital full of medicine and more and waiting for the germs to get killed and flushed out that takes days. So when you are this sort of miserable and after you asked (not your ordinary hi Jesus, won’t heal me by the way. Pretty intense praying going on here just before the healing starts) This one time I felt a plain say a plywood invisible and felt simply like you had above and below that plank of wood (not wood an invisible plain that is flat Plexiglas with on top and under. You feel it touch your head then pass down your body inside the plain is as flat from one side of your body to the other. Under that plain you are sicker that a dog worst you ever had of any sickness before this one (was sick for over 30 day and was on an American Indian reservation). Onto of that plain fully healed. This process moved down to where my legs began and then faded and I was like in the last day of a simple common flu. This took maybe 7 seconds.

Another healing was on the same Indian reservation in another year the host family was cooking intestines ahhhh, I saw a weeny in the window and it was 10 degrees outside I assume hey that has to be safe stupidly ignoring the several green spots on it. Assuming like bread or a banana just cut out the bad spots cook it and that would kill any germs. So I told her cook that, She did it reluctantly and I had that for my lunch instead of what they ate intestines. (it was my lover’s mom’s house he was Navaho). I got so sick I thought I was going to die and the nearest hospital was over 1 hour away. The had an outhouse (not to be gross, but what can I say) it had no door and faced east and out of site of the house. 10 inches of snow and 10 degree and I am in my worst ever need of that outhouse. A mile away was a large hill which earlier I had taken about 15 Indian kids on a hike, we saw many ancient ruins on top. It was a fun hike that hill was maybe 1500’ tall. Now a range of hills they called mountains went north to south the larger being straight east as I was facing. In utter pain I cried out to God in Jesus name to heal me. Suddenly at the most north end of that mountain range I saw what I would say the Holy Spirit flowing south along that range. When he got directly east (1 mile away) He poured down and when he got direct head level though a mile away I burst instantly uncontrollably into tears overwhelmed by what I can only call love. This last at least a minute or more but affected me for some time. That healed me during that 1 minute up to an ordinary mild discomfort which still needed a pot run a couple more times but was very mild. At 3 am I drove 8 hours to my mom’s, after that day we left for home I was tired and sleepy but my lover still rather have me drive. As we got on a hwy that led to the freeway about 10 men on horses led the way in front of the car. I knew these were not able to be seen and most likely because I was so tired. I had never seen anything like it in all my life and as I drove faster they road faster but the care was way too fast so I went by or over them and had to wonder what that was all about it was really weird hope I didn’t ruin something I was supposed to see. But hey got to get home. On the freeway the oncoming car headlights were bright and being tired didn’t help so I prayed a dumb prayer, god help with those bright lights in Jesus name. Instantly surprised shadows came up from in front of every care going the opposite way and covered the headlights diming them for me. This lasted the 30 minutes on that freeway to the off-ramp for home.

The 3rd healing was the first one I had gotten and the less severe and not really needed and who really cares if healed or not sort of things, no biggy but did hurt and was common in the LA area. I was watching Pat Robertson back in the earlier days before he went off in left field. Before 1980. He as usual said put your hand on the place of your pain and the other towards the TV. He does this all the time. I felt healthy, but he was insisting to viewers whatever your pain is. All I had was smog pain, this is common and in La area very often. Deep breathes hurt because of it but is no real problem and I was over 27 so had 27 years of smoggy days hurts a little by days end, it was mild and gone soon enough. So I thought hmm ok I will just do it since it is all I got. I casually almost embarrassingly though no one else there did put my hand on the center of my chest and the other towards the screen, then he said be healed in Jesus name. Instantly unexpected something sort of like a cloud gather throughout my chest from every part of my lungs and seem to puff up then gather towards the center where my hand was them rise out I could feel it rise out of my chest and dissipate into the room. That was some maybe 33 years ago and to this day no hint of smog pain at all no matter what kind of day it is.

I personally have no problem about believing in laying on of hands according to scripture and people get instantly healed. I am gay and no one else was involved, except that crazy thing watching Pat’s 700 Club. And going to Brant Baker’s healing rallies know faith healing is not just for str8 Pentecostals. However, like Paul Crouch erased Brant Baker like most church would never even give the time a day to hear the shortest testimony from a gay person unless it is one that claim to be delivered. How can we be noticed? Jesus walked the land preached then healed all that came up to get healed. Part of preaching Jesus should be no less than what he showed us lay hands on the sick. Pentecostal gays we should all every time we preach should not only invite people to accept Jesus (sinners prayer of some sort) we should ask them to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and explain the varied ways this can happen. We should also lay hands on the sick whenever we meet. Brant Baker met in a groups of friends and studied prayed worshiped and began the laying on of hands. Looking at the time frame it really did not take that long before he was holding faith healing rallies that began to grow rapidly and was becoming international. Some of you already have places to meet and preach and a congregation. Maybe you desire this but are resisting openly operating in your gifts or seeking these gifts or encourage those around you to come forth to operate in their gifts. We know how corrupt many str8 faith healers are and God still honors his promise that in his name he will heal the sick. We can complain about corruption of str8 ministers all we want, but they still have the lime light of faith healing where many healing are legit. How much more you being gay and Pentecostal and search so deep and long with being right with God. You love Jesus and you are not a fraud. Bring this refreshing side to the world. Some of you have the means to do a lot more than sort of play like an Assemblies of God church with whatever name you gave yourself. But so many of you remain silent or not publically with your website or anywhere relating yourself to the kind of praise and worship and statement of faith that matches the Assemblies on nearly every account. Don’t let their blindness on gays makes you want to disown your background. Let them know you are there and actually generally one of them and they can’t do anything about it because God is with you as much as with them, but what’s more Gay Pentecostal it is your turn to bat, you got one up on them. Let’s hear from you. If you are a pastor in the closet don’t be part of a scandal when they catch you. God is with you as you are and you can make a difference. If you have a gay church or group don’t be shy to claim your background as Assemblies of God. Gays were cut out of the Church by the church God graphed you back in, your place is to take the sickness out of the Church and heal it form its bondage to the conditionings of hatreds. If you are not in any church or groups but are of the Assemblies of God Background but think you can’t make a difference I want you to know you can. Many things online are free you can reach many and with the power of the Holy Spirit and anointing of God your will do marvelous things.

It is out turn to bat so go up to the plate and hit a homerun the bases are loaded.

Wednesday, June 2, 2010

Monday, May 31, 2010

Thomas L. Pedigo from TED Haggart’s FaceBook


Thomas L. Pedigo May 30 at 11:35am Report

If you know exactly what you are framing, then you are dead wrong, John. I've also been preaching for over 35 years, have had my own TV program and daily radio show as well.

Gays4jesus: Yes, and so has TBN, and Kenneth Copeland, and so has many churches and others. Gays have been condemned for 700 years. So your 35 years of preaching is based on a 700 yr old false doctrine on gays.

"Gayness" is not a primary Bible verse or doctrine.

Gays4jesus: it has to be for the numbers of people like you that use 14 of its verses to condemn gays and you do it figously, but without any sort of backup as to how you get gays into any verse.

Homosexual orientation is not God's "perfect will" for humanity - but in His permissive will He still loves you and those who have a different sexual bent.

Gays4jesus: You say it is not, so how did you come up with that, just your statement. 700 million gays today and nearly that many previous times. And when you look into gay lives what you see is an uncanny perfectness. It has amazed me to no end how gays match up. Each having whatever is needed in a relationship. Talk about perfectness it is utterly perfect in gay relationships. You just state it is not because you hate gays and you yourself can’t think of the thought of having a same sex partner, this does not make something wrong just because you like opposite relationship. Get the Bible out and I know any verse you come up with to try to backup this stance I can show you it is not as you say. You look at the Bible as to condemn what you personally are conditioned to hate. Again 700 million gays (soon to be anyway) and you don’t take even a second of your time to see how real gays live.

It's easy for you to throw around the word "homophobe" - I don't "fear" homosexuals but I do feel sorrow and pity for them.

Gays4jesus: Homophobe is a word I use to show a person that refuses to study, that will only state gay is sin. You do in fact fear gays, you just won’t admit it. If you start showing explanations of verses using history, language, and more, but you don’t you stand by it is assumed to be sin and so no one should question it. Do you feel sorrow or pity for any str8 married couple? Not meaning one of the tons of hurting families, but otherwise happy ordinary Joe and Mary next door. Because 700 million gays most are very ordinary they have good jobs in good relationships, not hurting and so forth so why your sorrow and pity, oh yes you believe they are going to hell just because you say its in the Bible, and it does not matter they accepted Jesus like you did.

And I'm sure you and I could throw scriptures and interpretations back and forth.

Gays4jesus: Nothing to do with throwing verses back and forth I am asking you to back up the verses you use. 14 verses should be simple:

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.

This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin. So the 14 become 8 verses. One verse is about gang rape, another about ritual orgies, one is just a statement God mad Adam and Eve, but the “RIB” means “CELL” so Steve was in the DNA. I can show you these things and I do this when I preach, I do not just say gay is not sin I back up my mouth, You on the other hand just state gay is sin and expect that to be Bible FACT.

But ultimately, the GREATEST COMMANDMENT and "primary belief" is to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength." Hopefully, you will not argue with tat. And the SECOND is like it, "Love your neighbor as yourself." Unlike many evangelicals,

Gays4jesus: When you talk about gays you don’t just play like who you are talking to is a person that needs milk. When you have a bunch of people to give a sermon to I can see teaching about the Greatest Commandments is relaevant, but I been in the Assemblies of God for 36 years so I got plenty of milk so let’s stick to the meat of the topic , you need to explain how you got arsenokoites to mean gay. 56 times after Paul used the word it was written down by Christians during the next 1600 years, over all in a 2100 year period it was used 76 times. These are documented in the full articles the word was used in so you can see how it was used so then have to explain how you NOW say it means gays. This also has a history. 1850 is when in the USA which influenced the whole world thereafter started using arsenokoites to mean gays. But as homophobes go they have to leave verses that might indicate same sex and go to other verses to try to show how bad gays are because they are auto sin.

I try to love and show respect for those with a homosexual orientation.

Gays4jesus: Love and hate are behaviors, so you say trying to love and respect the behavior that you do not show how you get gays to be sin using verses, but instead assume it is sin and assume gang rape means gay is sin, this it hate behavior. Love would take the needed time to show “arsenokoites” means gay. Now you cannot show any verse to mean gay so your only recourse is to stick to the assuming it is sin so this way you can love your hate and condemn gays by just stating it is sin.

But, I am not a homophobe for believing that it is not part of God's perfect plan.

Gays4jesus: You are homophobic simply because you don’ do something like this:

1. "And you shall not lie with a man of lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man of those lying with woman..." (p)

3. "And you shall not lie with a man who has lyings with woman..." (g,p)

4. "And you, of those lying with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (p)

5. "And you, of lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

6. "And you, having lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

7. "And you shall not lie with a man (as you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

1. "And you shall not lie with a man (like you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man (while you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

8. "And you shall not lie in beds of woman with a man..." (g)

9. "And you shall not lie lyings of woman with a man..." (g)

10. "And you shall not lie with a man as a woman lies..." (g)

11. "And you shall not lie with a man as (one) lies with woman..." (g)

12. "And you shall not lie with a man as (you) lie with woman..." (g)

13. "And you shall not lie with a man as with woman..." (g)

Gays4jesus: show 13 possible correct translations to English one paragraph or a very professional presentation. The rest would show that the 3 potential ways that could mean simply man with man would render in Hebrew the sentence unreadable. But the other 10 ways leave the Hebrew sentence understandable. This renders to the English that the first man has to be a “practicing str8 man”. I copied a part of the article that goes into much more detail that the verse is completely not talking about gays. You see in Moses’ day Hebrew men did in fact often go to fertility temple prostitutes the Bible calls “sodomites” Paul actually toured a temple in Corinth that had over 1000 temple prostitutes and that statue of the unknown god. When you refuse to explain how you got gays into a verse you are homophobic. What are you afraid of? That in your 35 years of preaching you do not know how to explain how you get gays into the Bible so when someone ask you to do so you avoid that with a passion.

Unfortunately, in this fallen world in which we are born and live, these things happen.

Gays4jesus: fallen world? Shall we now go into deep do do to show what fallen means and who are those behind fallen? FALLEN is a huge topic and that is a churchwide issue of the last days in which great shaking will occur to correct this fallen state condition. One part of this bas state the Church is in is their complete disregard to gays. 700 years ago the Church amputated gays out of the body of Christ, this was a very bad thing and today the consequences for that and other such acts by the Church leaves us in need of the 1260 days of Church wide shaking coming up. Again though look this takes us off topic isn’t that your real goal so you donot have to explain how you get fertility temple ritual orgies means gay is sin.

I don't judge you as a person....

Gays4jesus: When you state gay is sin with nothing to back up how you got gay to be sin then you are judging all gays sending them to hell without help.

I am NOW curious as to why you thought you had to advertise your Gay Pentecostals for Jesus on Ted Haggard's Facebook?

Gays4jesus: I am sorry are you blind as a bat, haven’t you been following Ted at all, did you lose all your marble? Ted I think is a fantastic human being. He was such a homophobe, He was at the top of the list of household names of big time homophobes. He is also Assemblies of God and much into last days events. He had much the same belief as I do. His outing as it were gave him new revelation toward people. Try to behave yourself I am not saying I think he is gay or I think he is still closeted this is not my topic here.. You asked why TED’s Facebook. It is because I had a 100% turn around on my attitude about him ever since he came on Larry King Live. My hats off to him. He is amazing now on his perspective of Jesus and people. Didn’t you watch Larry King? Well you should have. Hardly matter if Ted thinks techniquely gay is sin or not, what matters is how he responds to the issue. Who wouldn’t want to hear his testimony on how he now thinks people matter and is not willing to condemn 100s of millions to hell like you do based on your conditioning and not the Bible. If you say you base it on the Bible, re read what I have written to you, because you are not basing gays on what the Bible says. I do not go to orgies, I am not a gang rapist and I am not a male temple prostitute like you are telling me I am.

What were you trying to accomplish?...

Gays4jesus: is my worldwide ministry outreach this is what I am trying to accomplish, reaching the lost for Christ and helping the Saved stay Saved till the Rapture because Great Deceptions are here and more coming. My ministry is to pastors around the world. Mine is a faith healing ministry and much more that is what my calling is, thanks for asking.

it was your secondary issue of gayness - to me, not unity or love for God or love for others.

Gays4jesus: So posting a exciting new outreach of 24/7 live and recorded “Gays For Jesus” TV programs is a secondary issue? Is inviting Ted for an interview so he can give his thoughts with no conditions a secondary issue? Is reaching the Lost for Christ a secondary issue? I don’t understand your meaning (yes I do it is you see the word gay so you react from your conditioning) I am 63 years old and ever fiber of my being is for the Lord and those he loves and just who does he love and died for? John 3:16 For God so loved the world. . .

You are focused on ONE unfortunate issue.

Gays4jesus: I have about 20 sites and in ministry since 1974 so tell me did you research my ministry to come up with that statement? Do you know who pops up to my screen name? I have up to 20 chat messenger going all the time, I been in Christian chat rooms nearly daily since 1985 have you seen the people that come to me because of this screen name alone? I cannot keep pastor away from me from all over the world. Concerning a part of my ministry to homophobes my screen name brought over 800,000 homophobes in a 3 year period. I stopped counting in the late 80s. yes I guess you are right I am focused on one issue. Funny though my most interests lies in prophecy being fulfilled and Jesus soon return. But I must be mistaken since you say I have only one focus on some unfortunate issue.

To be frank (in your words), I find your comment to me insulting, condescending and perjorative.

Gays4jesus: Praise God so you get the idea of what your word are like to gays. “insulting, condescending and pejorative” You don’t even have any conscious at all concerning the lives of gays, you won’t spend a second on your mouth to make sure what comes out has some backing. Ted has changed, though all too often to get people to see beyond their conditioning often takes a tragedy. Parents discover the kid is gay and it is hard to hear their pastor saying their kid is going to hell so the parent studies and learns gay is not sin. Pastors are closeted till they are caught and outed so they have to have great tragedy to re-constitute their lives. These are mild form of some traumatic event that often is how people change from severe habits and conditionings. For you you are in bondage to a 700 year conditioning concerning gays. It is not going to be easy to get you to see you have been conditioned to believe rape is the same word as gay. For you it is NOW not possible for you to discern there is a difference between orgies and love between two people. Does it just has to take a crushing tragic event, or by chance can you study and you research can you step back and look at gay testimonies and come to see you were wrong. I personally don’t think it possible for many like you to come along on your own, you need God to interview. Please don’t think God is slow at this, blacks were 400 years and still have trouble with rights and respect today. The Bible has prophecy on this topic and that Jesus is holding back till it is fulfilled. There is a prophetic purpose that so many Christians are blind. Come on Israel Jesus is your Messiah, yet many do come over, but it will not happen till that time in a moment they will see whom they pierced so it is with some issues in the Church blindness in part is maintain for God to Glorify himself at that time he opens your eyes. Can you hear me, I think not how can you hear a gay person they are living in sin they can’t possibly have anything from God, God certainly will not give them revelations right? You can’t know because you refuse to listen. I bet when or if you write back you will do as you did simply in some manner say I am nuts and gay is sin and you will not explain it.

But I praise God for you because you give me tools to minister. I can answer the things you say and put them out on my site for other can see how homophobe condemn. The consistency with homophobes is they never ever explain why they think a verse is talking about gays. I started in 1974 100% public info from Christian and world was negative. Today, it has passed the 50/50 it took blacks 400 years, gays 36 year. But to be fare really about 62 years because that was when a secular psychiatrist woman began researching gays because her personal life she had some friends that were gay and it was not matching the sick gays in her hospital’s care and her colleges. From her marked the not turning back wave to bring back dignity to gays. In 1967 God gave gay Cathartics place to worship, in 1968 Protestant gays, and in 1969 secular gays (gay parades celebrates this 1969 event). By the time I began involvement with the gay community in 1970 the ay community already was well established but no so publically. Most large cities were gay Christian churches. But I was the first yes little old me was the first guaranteed openly gay Christian (and that Pentecostal too) in Christian chat rooms. I said a lot of what I am saying today and what you hear often from other gay Christians and non-gay but supportive Christians I was saying back then pre-1985 in Christian chat rooms. Not saying I had anything to do with it but it is a FACT I was in these room hundreds of them and sometime with up to 20 screen names and every day almost since then. There were only a couple places for chat rooms back them that had any sort of following and numbers. AOL and Yahoo were to big ones another one is long gone. There I was the only openly gay Christian day after day. Had the same screen name and when I went into the room my name immediately took over the conversation. Usually the rooms held 50 people and went several deep, today the 50 room has been cut down and because of str8 hookers many restrictions. But there I was basically running Christian chat rooms for years daily they had to talk about gays because there was my name and I knew the topic and could answer the toughest questions and the most educated were like you refuse to explain, but like you just flat out don’t know because you won’t study. That’s my ace up the sleeve is STUDY, once you do this the same answer are there because they are the FACTS and the truth. Finally other openly gay Christians would begin to speak up in these chat rooms. I also wrote to all the big time preachers and often they would hand write back to me. Paul Crouch sent a few hand written letters back to me as an example. Today going anywhere you are likely to run into a person that is very comfortable supporting gays. Christians and pastors openly and secretly support gays. WHY, your only possible answer is evil is growing worse as we get close to Jesus’ return. But the problem is why do you have to lie about gays, why do you ignore gay testimony. I am Pentecostal, speak in tongues, I been physically healed dramatically instantly 3 times. 1000s of answered prayers and not just vague prayers but pretty detailed and hardly likely could happen. Some happen within 5 to 15 minutes and were a complex prayer to boot. 200 assemblies of God pastors prophesied over me in my first 10 years before I came to the TV ministry which is a fulfillment of some of those prophecies. But do you care enough to look at gay testimony. Are you talking to me because of a fluke? Sorry, if God was going to use you to help me turn str8 you really need to know your Bible and so far you are not showing me that 35 years on TV has gotten you to know you Bible well enough to answer the simple question how do you get a man got to an adulteress woman to be an example of a gay couple like me and my lover Stef, He has been with me almost 21 years now.

If your 35 years means with TED, then it was not you on TV it was TED there is a difference from being part of a ministry and being THE ministry. TED is THER ministry not you. You may believe in it and so stayed 35 years. Otherwise tell me about your 35 years on TV preaching. Either you were very local and so only known locally sort of like me, though my programs techniquely has been seen by at least one person in every country. I know this because I was chatting with them and they used their pc cam to show their monitor and sure enough I was on his/her screen preaching. My claim is true. But thinking about your 35 yrs. makes me think it was really TED not you. Does not matter I get your point..

Well I wrote a lot partly for others to read and also hopefully to get you to reply with more thought than thinking you’ were insulted.