This statement is the report of the committee to study homosexuality. The report was adopted by the Assemblies of God General Presbytery, August 14, 1979. This report was revised by the General Presbytery on August 6, 2001.
gays4jesus: I will comment on Assemblies of God’s anti-gay doctrine using “gays4jesus” before my comment.
Increasing political and religious advocacy for homosexuality1 has prompted us to restate our position on this critical issue.2 We believe that all matters of faith and conduct must be evaluated on the basis of Holy Scripture, which is our infallible guide (2 Timothy 3:16,17). Since the Bible does speak on the subject of homosexuality, it is imperative that the Church correctly understands and articulates the truth on this important contemporary issue.
gays4jesus: This acts like something magical happened that by osmosis gays are increasing as we get near the last day so being a sign of more evil as we draw near the TRIB. When in fact as with any persecuted people a time comes when God moves and or they stand up and fight for what everyone else enjoys around them. Blacks has quite the history of moving from slavery (often Christian men raped women and children because they were property they owed). Black men got the right to vote way before any woman got that right and so we have women fighting for that right and rights to have equal pay. We are very happy to go into history and know very well a process long and hard took place to get to what we have today. There is no magic and usually we see God on the side of those persecuted. Unfortunately which should never be the case it is nearly completely Christians as the persecutors and the ones the fight the hardest to keep rights away from these innocent people. Is Jesus bad? Well in the Old Testament we see the people of God always in disobedience to God. Why would people be different after Jesus? Even with Jesus coming inside and God writing his LAW on our hearts we still disobey God constantly as did pre-Jesus time.
gays4jesus: So is this gays increasing thing a magical end time dilemma? OR does it have a solid based core of process as any minority seeking equal rights had gone through? 1948 a psychologist woman worked with gays as a therapist. Of course then gay was a disease right? She had a few gay friends she hung out with often in her free time. Over time she began to wonder how is it so we call gays sick but yet her friends well not sick but well-adjusted in life in spite of extreme condemnation from the Church. She personally took on researching this against her college advice. Out of this comes todays clean bill of health in the official condition of gays in the mental and medical field. Then in 1967 Catholic gays began meeting starting a group called Dignity. In 1968 Perry a Four Square pastor started Metropolitan Community Church which began the protestant move for gay Christians. These two groups were the for runners of all the gay Christian groups today. Prior to this time gay Christians met quite secretly of just blended in their regular church (who could know they were gay, you can’t tell who a gay person is by looks. Those that you can tell a mile away are extremely few in numbers, but we see a lot of them because there are nearly 700 million gays in the world today. In 1969 started the secular gay movement given the name Stonewall after the name of the bar where it started. Thanks to these we have this modern secular gay movement responsible for most of the gay rights progress that can be seen. There is no magic to how we are nearly 50% pro-gay today. Often this number is 60%. Christian gay roles in this movement is mainly join the secular causes in a secular sense or being pray warriors out of sight of mainstream. Christian gays during this time did the ground word in researching the Bible concerning gays, Gay Christians most of the time back up what they say with the research they did or other that did the scholarly work. When you look even at this Assemblies of God doctrine against gays there is no research at all, gay are just called perverts as it admits and so any verse can be applied.
gays4jesus: In the sense of “Since the Bible does speak on the subject of homosexuality” stated in the 1st paragraph of AOG’s doctrine it starts with the assumption gays are spoken with condemnation. This is 95% of how gays are condemned, just assuming it is sin.
gays4jesus: AOG used “2 Timothy 3:16,17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. ” They imply so this means gay is sin because we assume the verses condemns gays. AOG did not explain that as later in their doctrine they use verse they have the built in assumption means gays period and explain is not allowed. I 100% believe “2 Timothy 3:16,17” but I believe the inspired Word is not YOUR wish or guess or hatred being printed out for you to read for justifying your false doctrine against gays. (this false doctrine was invented around 12th century).
gays4jesus: 1979 was 10 years after STONEWALL and gay parades well established during those 10 years before 1979. To AOG this could look like “Increasing political and religious advocacy for homosexuality1” but a little research would have shown them the roots of it. AT that bar and many gay meeting places police often raided them to arrest them just because they are gay. Huge history that is not secret is available to understand that process and why gay parades have grown. Gay parades is not example of all gays. Somehow Christian gay groups marching in those parades go unseen by AOG or other Christian. What is seen is dike on bike bar boobs or almost naked men on a float. They see banners indication pro-abortion or the list that states several causes which abortion may be on. In the str8 world most seem to support abortion so do we say str8 Christian support it? Then why assume because gay secular support things that means gay Christians support it just because of the word gay?
This reaffirmation of truth has become all the more urgent because writers sympathetic to the homosexual community have advanced revisionist interpretations of relevant biblical texts that are based upon biased exegesis and mistranslation. In effect, they seek to set aside almost 2,000 years of Christian biblical interpretation and ethical teachings. We believe these efforts are reflective of the conditions described in 2 Timothy 4:3, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.
gays4jesus: “2 Timothy 4 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” This takes the cake! Talk about how to upset someone! “advanced revisionist interpretations” what is this supposed to mean? Those that say gay is sin offer 0% explanation of how the get gays into a verse. I have been preaching on TV since Jan.1985 and had had at least 800,000 homophobic contacts in just the first 3 years of that. I have talked to many 100s of AOG pastors, Christian scholars and lay people and from all denominations and religions. I been in Christian chat rooms daily almost since 1985 as well. No Christian stating gay is sin explain anything about verses they use, they just say it proves gay is sin. While gays go into exhaustive research and study. Into 10s of 1000s of ancient documents to show real gays in Jesus’ day and so much more as I will get into on later paragraphs. Christian history is not so simple as to state 2000 years. It is broken down into huge segments of topics and conditions and eras and more. The 1st 1000 years Christians could legally have mistresses and own concubines. St. Augustine wanted to marry a wealthy woman so to impress her he sold his concubine and soon after he began the writing that generally mad sex out of the missionary position sin and much of our strict morality issues comes from HIM not the Bible. 12th century came major changes to marriage. Pagans galore join Christianity and brought their marriage ritual with them and these were adopted as Christian. Detailed article can be written concerning how Christian leaders controlled their flocks. (REMEMBER: The Assemblies originated from the Pentecostal revival of the early 20th century. This revival led to the founding of the Assemblies of God in the United States in 1914.) For a very long time Christian commonly dropped off unwanted children on church doorsteps (throwaway children if you are not clear on this). Furthermore: “The Ninety-Five Theses on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences (Latin: Disputatio pro declaratione virtutis indulgentiarum), commonly known as The Ninety-Five Theses, were written by Martin Luther in 1517 and are widely regarded as the primary catalyst for the Protestant Reformation. Luther protested against what he considered clerical abuses, especially in regard to indulgences.” Christian 2000 years is full of ups and downs and dramatic changes and much more. What is being set aside? Again the anti-gay doctrine is an invention by a few powerful Catholic leaders to create scandals to purge leaders that did not agree with them from power. 100 years later the protestants adopted that doctrine after mostly rejecting it during that time.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”3 (See also v. 4.)
gays4jesus: 700 million gays (nearly soon will be) being told they are going to hell because they are gay. They accept Jesus. Now explain to me how people that accept Jesus will now begin a massive endeavor to corrupt the word of God? Tell me how gays are different when they accept Jesus than str8s? Why when gays accept Jesus you have to have in your brain they want to justify being gay to stay gay? Why won’t you accept the truth. Jesus says: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. So why do only gays hate truth and so change the Bible to lies? You sure assume a lot about gays. Who did you go to figure out gays change the inspired word. Bull dike lesbians? (not saying this group falls into a category that all of them fit, but some lesbian groups work hard to make God a woman, this does not reflect most gays at all) MCC’s founder a Four Square pastor has gone to an all inclusive language (this is a detailed process and is not a fly by night corrupting God’s word issue). Does other off the wall groups make Assemblies of God gays fit into finding teachers to suit their inching ears? Sorry Assemblies of God gays got it extra tough. You hate them and gay Christian groups for the sake of the rest won’t allow Pentecostal expression in the AOG fashion. Gay AOGers stay in the AOG and stick by the AOG statement of faith. (my ministries statement of faith is theirs http://s91536390.onlinehome.us/gaysforjesus/Statement.html) Please take time to read AOG statement of faith and tell me where gays are “suit their own desires” I am about as close to 100% in agreement with AOG doctrine so how do I go goo hear wit inching ears. “3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” so as a gay Pentecostal Christian since 1974 the gay Christian I see and I certain guess I have seen a few don’t you think? Do not operate on 2 Tim 4:3. But we can certain bring up lots of info about Assemblies of God throughout the world and how many in its congregation do go after about anything they can hear. Today we have great access to all denomination and Christian groups so we can study as God told us to learn truth. Assemblies of God will probably always be the Church for me compared to all other churches, but AOG has its piece of the puzzle we should never disregard other pieces of the puzzle other denomination has. Assemblies of God actually statement of faith is great but this is not how AOG operates. Their SOF commands them not to have a doctrine against gays like “34-4181”. What does the AOG refer to by implement itchy ears? They refer to anything that goes against their doctrines in this case anti-gay doctrine. So if someone spends 7 years (that person speak fluently 5 middle east language and several of their dialects and knows much about several other languages of the region. And he uses the top translators and scholars and more to research a phrase Jesus spoke and has it was used and what criteria is needed to show beyond doubt the people it refers to “born Eunuchs” Now it is easy to condemn anyone, so my point is not whether you would accept anything I present to you, but that you would at least show your research on the same issue to show gay is what the Bible is condemning. Studies abound in the Christian gay community because organizations like Assemblies of God condemn them with no backup sources. If you can hard find even one source to show “born eunuchs” are really people that for whatever reason can’t have sex then be my guest show me. But I beg you don’t wish it on me, I want to see the actual material. If gays takes the time researching to see if God hates them or their love (meaning if you are married it is like God hates your spouse and you making love or being in love) and see that those verse you use do not talk about real gays and tells you , but you will not show them what your research shows. Why is it gays having itchy ears instead of you putting ear plugs in so you can’t hear what they found out?
It should be noted at the outset that there is absolutely no affirmation of homosexual activity found anywhere in Scripture. Rather, the consistent sexual ideal in the Bible is chastity4 for those outside a monogamous heterosexual marriage and fidelity5 for those inside such a marriage. There is also abundant evidence that homosexual behavior, along with illicit heterosexual behavior, is immoral and comes under the judgment of God.
gays4jesus: This lie is shown a 1000 time a 1000 ways to be a lie. It is so normal that those condemning gays by saying gay is in have to lie about gays. When I accepted Jesus (I accepted him because I made the mistake 30 days before [not a mistake just reached the point where too much happing to let my belief there was no god(s) to get in the way of my love for truth, long story see my testimony] to say to God if you are truth Io will accept you). The Bible indeed has many references to gays. Because homophobes wants to see 2 part As or 2 part Bs engaged in sex when looking for gays they can’t see real gays in the Bible because they are not gay and don’t know what to look for or would reject first hand reports. We easily accept missionaries word when they say that some tribe off in la la land has no idea what “anchor” means so the missionary say heavy stone because that tribe knows the concept behind the statement heavy stone means to them “anchor” to us. Also in our hearts has no meaning to some places but instead in our throats does. If you are not gay way are you pretending to speak for gays like you understand throat means heart? Earlier I pasted “95 point thesis” showing how one man had it what today we say is right verses the whole church back in the 15th century were wrong. Galileo had it bad saying the Earth rotated around the Sun. The Church can be so wrong about very major issues. Jesus said: 11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Here we have an example where Jesus is saying most won’t accept. Tell me are you the least or few that will. If so then why do most believe it like you do, shouldn’t this be a sign you are wrong? Or did Jesus lie or is there some way you explain why most is ok here even though Jesus says most won’t accept? But no convincing you even when we get an exhaustive research into language use in Jesus’ day you cannot accept it, so history and actual usages is a lie to you, why? Chastity? Then condemn yourselves sex scandals and divorces are fairly common with Church leaders. Here is the joke of jokes monogamous, every and all patriarch and others in the Bible have multiple wives concubines and slaves and more for sex. Even hundreds of them at times. Christian history for the 1st 1000s years sex was to make a baby or is was sin, you had to have a mistress or concubine for legal sex and love. Families arranged marriages today we have no problem saying “get lost” to our families when we decide ourselves who we want and we already had sex with them Josh MacDowell’s book 69% Christian on first date has sex.
gays4jesus: again the assumption gay is sin with no attempt to explain it, in AOG does no more that to state a few of the 14 antigay verses implying it is automatically condemning gays. Str8s remain and always will be the kings and queens of sexual immorality. Gays conducting what would seem to be outright sexual immorality won’t be charged with in in heaven’s books because they are in forced labor camps with the warden being homophobes. With the implementation of the anti-gay doctrine of 700 years ago the Church now renders to itself the charges of sexual morality they heaped on Gays by denying them legitimate recourse for meeting others. This is not a fly by night depiction, but with depth in the word of God you won’t be able to fathom until you figure out gay is not sin based on the verses you use. “Abundant evidence” is the 14 verses 7 of which use the same word “sodomite” this means “abundant” means 8 verses. Adding the mired of sin verses does make gay sin or adds to the 14 verses, 1st you need to show any of the verse talks about real gays as I will comment on as AOG uses them bellow.
We believe, in the light of biblical revelation, that the growing cultural acceptance of homosexual identity and behavior, male and female, is symptomatic of a broader spiritual disorder that threatens the family, the government, and the church. This paper is a brief exposition of salient biblical teachings on this subject.
gays4jesus: “growing acceptance”? So as people are educated because study and research has gone deep into the issue. How does people accept things? Playing with the trues tares and the people we can explain with many theories and face Bible and otherwise as bound for hell flat out. Tares is a good example as these are not savable and will be allowed to grow with the wheat. This is a huge chunk of tremendous amount of history concerning who are real tares. For the sake of this commenting I will assume we are not talking about tares but about real people that really can be Saved or are Saved based in AOG’s statement of faith. Gays have been here since the Beginning. TBN brought us the teaching by Roy Blizzard for many years, argue with him and others like him about the Hebrew word “RIB” this word is in 2 form in the Bible and used twice each. All can be used as an ordinary rib, but only one form is bound to be only to mean the rib bone if it was used in Adam’s rib. This form was not used in Adam the other form was used. This form means more that it is a chamber that has stuff in it. These str8 TBN renowned (Assemblies of God Pastor founded TBN) said the best English we have says that word RIB means “CELL from that RIB” therefore it cannot be shown Steve was not in the DNA. You can’t argue it even the DNA expert cannot take Steve out of the DNA of Adam’s Rib and this is Bible. Just saying you cannot read Steve is not good explanation to the FACT it can be shown it is DNA and therefore all manner of humans we see today in all its colors existed in Adam’s RIB’s DNA. Hard argument to be sure but “not Adam and Steve” is a very poor excuse to condemn gays. Garden is an interesting place since you have to start with sex and babies from immediate brothers and sister implying but not specifically said by God to be the first marriages. Well we certainly do not want to be obeying marriages of that 1st 1000 years do we, and for that matter we don’t want the Noah’s son’s babies thing either, we hardly accept distant cousins today, but all of OT was must marry in the family period. Point h ere is for everything you want to discuss about the Bible you should know what you are talking about for the Bible covers a lot of things and if you know the Bible you should know a lot of things it says and you should not pick and choose what sounds good to you.
gays4jesus: Let’s do math. 700 million (hey stop your evil thinking, it is really almost 700 million gays get off your stupidity of saying it is tons less). 700 gays x 2 = 1400 parents + 700 = 2100 meaning 2.1 billion people directly affected by Church condemning gays. We don’t count brothers and sister or friends or co-workers and bosses. Yes the anti-gay doctrine is one of the biggest destroying elements of families. Black were not allowed to have their own pastors, but were allowed to go to heaven from the start. Gays are condemned to hell with no hope in God. If needed I can and have talked about the ex-gay movement, hate to have to mention this, but so often it is said gays can be delivered or they need to be celibate to be saved. There are several gay libraries with over a million books in the 80s one had 4 million books. The Vatican has tons of books they do not make public. History has much on gays, so much of history’s famous people were gay and so many stories, gay is not a suddenly a NOW thing. What is new is NOW we have the I do not want to be persecuted and told I am going to hell just because I am gay. We that are gay know this is not a choice. Keep in mind being str8 is not a choice, I bet you are not wishing or ever been wishing you weren’t str8. So you being str8 is not an evil bad thing you just happen to get stuck with by genes. Likewise gays “not a choice” don’t have a problem with it like you don’t have a problem with it. The problems are external and usually not of God and evil. Gang bangs after all is not a gay term it refer to str8s. gays are human so do sex things that aren’t good, but problems are other doing the hurting unjustly or bullying or persecuting. Str8s has a lot of problem being str8, sometime it seem more a hassle in str8 sex affairs so why be str8 at all. But you still want it go figure.
Here is another FACT gays are quite extra ordinary no matter the origin of peoples or beliefs. In the secular, the religious, the family, the culture. Gays are said to be gatekeepers. Best workers, caregivers and so forth. The Church amputated them 700 years ago and so the Church is often talked about with nothing to do with gays, but to do with today the church is sick and need a revival and much more to heal the Church. Church infighting and corruption is common, church joining other religion is done today with not thought they are working hand in hand with satan. The concept TODAY it is worse because of gays is displaying your ignorance of Church history and just history. But this make for easy condemnation of gays because truth does not have to be shown.
I. Homosexual Behavior Is Sin.
Historically, homosexuality often has been defined as an emotional (psychological) or organic (physiological) problem. In recent years, some have lobbied mental health organizations to have homosexuality removed from the list of classified diagnostic pathologies, and many have come to see it as nothing more than a morally neutral personal preference or a naturally occurring aspect of human biological diversity. In making moral judgments, we must remember scriptural warnings against depending on our own reasoning or even personal experience to discern truth (Proverbs 3:5,6).
gays4jesus: “Proverbs 3:5,6 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.” As usual no reference to gays, but as usual homophobes find any verse to try to make gay all the worse by implying it applies because they are gay making it worse than any str8 sin. If Christians do not use the Bible as a source to explain gay is sin then what source are they using? They say it’s in the Bible. But not in this Proverbs verse. “own understanding”? If you do not use the Bible and so assume a verse means gay is sin whose understanding is it yours or the Bible’s? GREEK/HEBREW are specific languages and they have indeed evolved today, modern Hebrew/GREEK sometimes makes no sense to its Jesus’ day version. 2000 years ago God thought well enough of the language to use it to be BIBLE’s NT. Today we cannot go to Webster’s to define 2000 years ago Hebrew/Greek that was translated to Latin Vulgate in the 2nd century with another corrupt version in that same century. The correct version was used till KJV which became so popular and cheap all others faded. The corrupt version popped up in the 15th century and became the Catholic’s official Bible (story behind this). In the 1880s Westcott and Hort translated that corrupt version to Greek then back to English and it became the Church of England’s official Bible (story behind this). All modern versions comes from the Church of English’s Westcott and Hort translation having 50,000 to 80,000 corruptions. the thing i s Assemblies of God is so big why is there no info about Westcott and Hort who are much more evil than translating the corrupt version you hold in your hands today. No excuse modern version or the original KJV that Assemblies of God was founded in and did not give up easily as they transferred over to corrupt modern versions. Even with modern version the Bible is so study able and so meanings can be found with any verse. Mental health’s removal of gay being sick perverts as AOG likes to call them is not a fly by night thing as I stated earlier. 1948 with intense research and decades of processes how can Assemblies of God state some have lobbied. It is not some have lobbied at all it was not exterior in origins. The FACTs are one woman in 1948 period started her own research as I mention earlier. From within “mental health organizations” their research resulted in removal, they were not lobbied. Now certainly some Christian mental health resisted this research and removal and so yes they would come under the efforts to comply with the official removal at risk of losing funding. The Church often yields to the almighty $$ to keep that money rolling in from government. If Assemblies of God relied on the Bible they would have shown facts behind Bible English words as to the ancient meanings used in the Bible. They don’t flat out as I will show.
A. Homosexual behavior is sin because it is disobedient to scriptural teachings.
When God called Israel to be His people in a distinctive sense, He miraculously delivered them from Egyptian bondage. But God did more. He entered into a covenant relationship with them and provided the Law, predicated on love for God and neighbor, by which they could order their lives as a holy people. That law included specific prohibitions of homosexual practice, such as that of Leviticus 18:22: “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.” Lest the previous injunction be misunderstood, Leviticus 20:13 provides a restatement, “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.” “Detestable,” used in both verses, is a strong word that indicates divine displeasure with sin.6
gays4jesus: Now fun with the verse maybe. . I have heard hundreds of sermons if not 1000s that include the LAW of God (via Law of Moses) that to obey this LAW you have to obey all of it, you cannot be forgiven by saying in Jesus name forgive me. Jesus death on the Cross becomes void to re-invoke the LAW. To be forgiven you have to abide by blood sacrificing specific animals in specific manner for specific reasons and incidences. To tell a person to obey God’s “Moses” LAW has to include how to be forgiven. You cannot pick out the best of both. Death on the Cross with Jesus’ BLOOD and death by a cow in a special God describe process. If you are of the persuasion that gays choose to be gay and choose to date and make love in the same manner a str8 person today does i.e. boy meets girl, they date, they fall in love, they marry. As to compare with the real gays i.e. boy meets boy, they date, they fall in love, they marry. Then you need to explain why str8s don’t stop meeting opposite sex to ultimately be in bed having sex. You need to do a study set aside significant acceptable number of married str8s and tell them for the sake of researching the truth stop sex, to the singles stop dating. Now you need to do this study for a lifetime because you tell gays they cannot date or get married. Once you determine you can indeed ask a group to be celibate (again the groups needs to be across the board, not people that felt a call to be celibate) then see if you are asking the impossible when you don’t explain why gay is sin you just tell gays they can’t have sex. Catholic have a great deal of problems asking those that feel called to be celibate, God tells us: “5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.” Here a married couple stops sex, but Paul tells them make it short hurry up get back to sticking part A into part B or you will go to bed with your neighbors spouse. If it is not very easy for str8 to stop sex why are you forcing gays to stop telling them they are un-repented if they keep doing it even it is exactly in the same type marriage life as str8 have.
gays4jesus: THE BIGGY. . . Lev 18 For details click The word in AOG anti-gay doctrine “detestable” is not in the Bible. The actual word is “abomination” This word is in many forms in the OT and NT but what they have in common is what they means and how they are used. Not any is just used to be as wished “detestable” the Hebrew for abomination means acts done worshipping other gods that is why God hates it so... 8441 tow` ebah (to-ay-baw'); or to` ebah (to-ay-baw'); feminine active participle of 8581; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol: KJV-- abominable (custom, thing), abomination.
gays4jesus: Now we love sermon on LOVE and the GREEK words for it. English having just one word, Greek having a few. Well Greek is not a loner in this sort of thing. Hebrew also has words that break down into additional words so you just need to say the word and the hearer knows what you are talking about with no added phrases or more words to paint the picture. “MAN” is one of them. In Leviticus there are two man words in both the chapter 18 and the chapter 20 verses. Clicking the link above will take you to my site where I have a copy of detailed breakdown of the actual Hebrew for these most infamous verses in the Bible used to condemn gays. Some excerpts:
At any rate, the literal translation using mishk'vey as either a gerund or a participle allows for several translations/readings, which span the spectrum in meaning. Here are several possible readings:
1. "And you shall not lie with a man of lyings with woman..." (g)
2. "And you shall not lie with a man of those lying with woman..." (p)
3. "And you shall not lie with a man who has lyings with woman..." (g,p)
4. "And you, of those lying with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (p)
5. "And you, of lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)
6. "And you, having lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)
7. "And you shall not lie with a man (as you have) lyings with woman..." (g)
1. "And you shall not lie with a man (like you have) lyings with woman..." (g)
2. "And you shall not lie with a man (while you have) lyings with woman..." (g)
8. "And you shall not lie in beds of woman with a man..." (g)
9. "And you shall not lie lyings of woman with a man..." (g)
10. "And you shall not lie with a man as a woman lies..." (g)
11. "And you shall not lie with a man as (one) lies with woman..." (g)
12. "And you shall not lie with a man as (you) lie with woman..." (g)
13. "And you shall not lie with a man as with woman..." (g)
In each translation, the manner in which the noun, mishk'vey, is interpreted is denoted by (g) for gerund, and (p) for participle.
(this means 10 of the above correct possible ways to translate to English [13 ways means you can’t try to say it is simple so it is talking about gays] will keep the Hebrew grammar intact and means “practicing str8 man” to put it simple. 3 ways can actually mean any male will do, but renders the Hebrew grammar un readable and is just a jargon of a Hebrew sentence.
gays4jesus: When I was first studying in Christian books stores in the mid-70s (because I had no money for higher Bible education) all the verse fell in line because to use them to condemn gays was a bunch of baloney. Gang rape is not how you condemn gays, orgies to other gods is not how you condemn gays and male temple prostitutes is not how you condemn gays and Adam and Steve is not in the Bible so God can not have said he did not make them. But the Leviticus verses was difficult to explain. After all man with man like man with womankind is a hard one to figure could mean something other than a gay couple. Why “womankind” seemed like a strange word since that would mean every woman possibly. But the was an absolute involved here whether you can accept it or not. “GAY IS NOT SIN PERIOD” knowing this means eventually the key to Leviticus would one day be found. When 7 of the 14 verses means “male temple prostitutes which history of Paul and Moses’ day abound, in one swipe you render 14 down to 8 verses. That is so significant especially since “sodomite” is key to homophobe’s quest to condemn gays. If they lose “sodomite” they lost the battle. But they can’t see loosing so they ignore they lost “sodomite” as in their arsenal to condemn gays. One day out of the blue someone sent me the breakdown of the verse. It fully and completely and substantially brought to bear the meaning of the verse. I had had a ton of research concerning Moses’ day and sermons in Assemblies of God and many places abound in the fertility culture that surrounded the people of God. Many books that go into great detail of the ancient times and the temple worship and the details of the temple prostitutes I had already read and pastor never had trouble talking about the other gods that were in the LAND God gave the Hebrews. The Hebrew men often patronized the sodomites of those temples. Also, God commanded Israel to rid the Land of sodomites. These are detailed in most of the 7 verses with the word sodomite in them. However, there is just no way to rid the land of gays. Even today with gay rights on the rise, most gays are completely invisible to you, how can you rid the land of gays? Will you go after the obvious, TS, TV, TG, and extremely fem or extremely butch what would be your way to find all gays? 700 million of them you know. 15 years I was never suspected of being gay in the Assemblies. It was not until I went on TV as an openly gay Pentecostal TV preacher THAT PEOPLE knew I was gay. With the background research behind me and NOW this new info (before 1990) I now had that key that showed Leviticus did not talk about gays either. I knew “womankind” pretty much was reflecting a sexually immoral woman and that was mainly an adulteress woman. And I knew “abomination” had to include in the use applied to act done as worshipping other gods (most around Israel were fertility gods). So it is hard to imagine you would be talking about comparing a gay couple to a married het couple. But even so, was a very weak argument to try to show it is not talking about gays. Too much playing with wishful thinking and modern style concepts to make it a sure thing not gays. The link above however, makes the case provable beyond doubt. To not accept this finding means you just simple are reject FACT of ancient times and Bible word definitions of Moses’ day. The word “man” meaning according to Hebrew word “practicing str8 man” secures the sentence intact with complete understandable real life actual dates events. REAL str8 married men did really go often enough to male temple prostitutes in Moses’ day. God really does act like we are married to him and he really does use this as an example of that adulteress woman. We are married to God to go to gods is adultery. The str8 man hear was a Hebrew man and he went to male temple prostate for ritual sex. Often this is in ritual orgies with many people engaging in sex together. In no way shape of form does it talk about me and my lovers which in a couple years will have our silver anniversary. My dilemma with gay Christian explanation for Leviticus made no sense at all. Best source and good source and correct on the other verses lost it on Leviticus understandably. They said the tribe of Levi was set aside to be consecrated to serving the temple and so for them consecration meant gays could not have sex. This to me is about as dumb as you can get. Perfectly good research gone not the other verses that more than shown they did not talk about gays just went out the window for Leviticus. Many still believe this stupid notion concern that verse. God simply is not going to tell gays not to have sex but tell str8s to have all the sex they want based on a code for Levites only. I will not accept a wrong interpretation gay or str8. Important note here. I have said in many of my TV programs and I have pleaded on my websites and in chats and chat rooms and so many places give me your explanations. The most educated Christian scholar will not give me anything other than as one told me “ask Kenneth Copeland” WOW what a good little Hebrew Bible expert. That one told me he won’t waste his time with it. Yeah 700 million people and he won’t waste his time for a group that big.
gays4jesus: yes Lev. 20:13 is almost an exact copy of 18:22 with an addition. “they shall be put to death”. Let’s now get into this aspect of putting to death. The Bible is not a modern day concept of events and acts. It is ancient practices of People of God according to the LAW of God (given to Moses) plus a mired of oral commandments and laws. “put to death” does not mean police arrest this criminal, then judge declare him guilty by a jury, then set a punishment of execution to be done by an executioner. In Moses day the legal process was the accuser was required to STONE to death who they accused. It was not done in any other fashion. Tell me Assemblies of God largest Pentecostal church in the world does not know Bible history and mosaic law? Assemblies of God colleges one here in the pacific NW does not teach about the time of Moses? Why then is no pastor correcting this method of execution. Re-evoking the LAW for gays to be punished means homophobes needs to start obeying God and STONE to death gays they accuse of being gay. Bet you will say it is just rhetoric right?
The Christian church has historically understood that although the ceremonial provisions of the Old Testament law were no longer in effect after the atoning death of Christ, the New Testament interpretation and restatement of its moral law was. On the subject of homosexuality, both the Old and New Testaments speak with one voice. The moral prohibitions against homosexual behavior in the Old Testament are pointedly repeated in the New Testament.
gays4jesus: Ok let’s hear what AOG says as if I don’t already know. Funny here you actually hear they are understanding the LAW of Moses was fulfilled on the Cross so sort of its gone (unless it is needed to condemn something). But potentially all verses used in the OT they just now wipe clean by saying NT fulfilled in in Christ. (this is extremely shortened explanation which is a cool topic on its own showing the OT’s LAW was a school teacher so we know we deserve to die for our sins, but God sent Jesus to die for us. So AOG will now show (I means use a verse or 2 that has something to do with sex, then add lots of stuff that does not) how the NT “both the Old and New Testaments speak with one voice” however, so far they did not show the OT spoke against gays.
To those who witnessed on a daily basis the sexual license of imperial Rome, Paul depicted the results that followed in the lives of those who rejected God and “worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator. . . .
gays4jesus: Right away the answer is in their mouth (AOG) Rome was a pagan fertile culture.
Did you know that
the ancient fertility goddess had many names?
“The religions which developed these ideas were all based on a maternal figure, found under different names throughout a great part of the Near East.
To the Phoenicians she was Astarte; to the Phrygians, Cybele; to the Babylonians, Ishtar; to the Thracians, Bendis; to the Cretans, Rhea; to the Ephesians, Artemis; to the Canaanites, Atargatis; to the Persians, Anaitis; to the Cappadocians, Ma. But though her names differ, her attributes are the same - she is always the mother who succours and helps, and who bestows fertility.
This composite figure was generally known as Magna Mater, the great mother, and it was said that she was mother of all the other gods...
gays4jesus: Cybele became famous and in wide use by 2nd century BC and was well known in Paul’s day. It is also known on every street corner was a fertility temple. In those temple were male temple prostitutes many cut off “junior” and dressed like women, because their client were str8. Paul really had a thing against the Hebrew men frequenting these sodomites in ritual sex worship to their gods. In Corinth it was the same, Paul went inside a temple that had over 1000 temple prostitute. To emphasize this importance that temple had THAT statue to the unknown god Paul referred to later. AOG admits to Hebrews rejecting God here. But AOG does not say those rejecting God were gays, they just say in general some or many Hebrew were rejecting God stating they worshipped what (other gods?).
Because of this God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations[7] for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations[8] with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts[9] with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion” (Romans 1:25–27). Paul is referring to both male homosexuality and lesbianism.
gays4jesus: Correct meaning is in its brief simple meaning “str8 adults turned from GOD to gods” AOG says lots of gods here and Hebrew went after them. “worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator” we do not have to guess about the gods being worshipped because both OT and NT details this and so does every preacher that has preached a sermon. They (the THEY people) had to be adults because they knew God “21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,” A dilemma gays were gay from way before adulthood. I guarantee you most gays are aware they are gay even pre-teen. In 1959 I knew something was different about me even with no hint of any sort of gay anything, it was like there simply was not a concept other than str8. But I knew. Today gays kids has the luxury of abundant info that explains what they feel inside. There is little to wonder about. Gay testimony direct to me in the 10s of 1000s if not 100s of 1000s are the same. It is extremely rare any are raped or seduced or the like. They all have very similar stories to tell. Does not matter the culture or country it is the same around 9 -12 they find they are gay. Str8s also learn they are str8 at this same age. I hear from str8s even more so than gays. Often Christian str8 say they choose to be str8, I ask why, they say because the Bible says it is the choice. So then how do non-Christian choose? If we use conditioning then why are there 700 million gays? Str8s discover they are str8. This is pretty much a no shocker because already they were conditioned to think when they are old enough they will marry and have kids so when “junior” says NOW! Then str8 start dating. You being str8 want opposite sex because of Paul’s word “nature and natural” “5446 phusikos (foo-see-kos'); from 5449; physical", i.e. (by implication) instinctive: KJV-- natural. Compare 5591. 5449 phusis (foo'-sis); from 5453; growth (by germination or expansion), i.e. (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension, a genus or sort; figuratively, native disposition, constitution or usuage: KJV-- ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).” Reduced to easy English “seed and instinct” meaning an apple seed will turn in the an apple tree with apples not pears. Instinct forces the issues. You cannot tell a str8 person to be str8. When they are of age their instinct will force them to be str8. NOW of course you love it so it is no never mind the process. But when you play games about saying it is choice and one chooses to be gay then you need to understand biology and the Bible words. Already Paul’s day use of nature is not our modern scientific usage. We need to get into the minds of ancient Hebrew to know what nature means. Getting back to 26-27 (note the story is 18-32 but most homophobes select the middle and insert new characters into the story that was not there at verses 18. Nature and natural here means if change is done and homophobes say str8s turned gay by choice or rather verse 24-25 God made them gay. Then this renders nature and natural weird, because to NOW be gay you had to be str8 and we established and can substantiate these start by being str8 adults and so meaning to be gay based on 26-27’s nature and natural you had to have been str8, had str8 sex and loved it and had not had gay sex before this time. I would love to see how AOG explains the process of the verse order in the story, but as you saw what they said above it is likely they just jump around as needed to fit anything to make gay seem to be sin. The clincher should be 28-32 also part of the story that cannot be cut out. It is so popular to say God gave gays a reprobate mind because they became gay as we just went through. So 700 million gays we need to see really some bad stuff that is nothing to do with sex. We read a list which we certainly know we are some of those things and maybe do multiples of them, but we never think we are to be classed in that verse. But AOG says the story say gay is sin. Gays have to be behaving verse 28-32. REAL life shows the opposite. This can be gone over in detail with tons of examples that are common gay behaviors i.e. employers best workers, best bosses, care fields would collapse if gays left it, pillars in family crisis on and on the list of very opposite real life actual gay behaviors. What you can’t find easily is what is listed in 28-32. Examples maybe be used relating to gay bars and bath houses and drug use and destroyed lives because of church created scandals and those so much in despair because of Christian condemnation, but these are a tiny number compared to the 700 million mostly well-adjusted gays.
In Paul’s day, the city of Corinth was especially notorious for sexual immorality. It was not only a crossroads of commerce, but of all kinds of vice. Because the church was being established in this city, it was important that new Christians come to understand God’s moral order. The record is explicit.
gays4jesus: yes Corinth was especially ordinary sexually immoral and predominately fertility culture gods. This is where Paul toured a fertility temple with over 1000 temple prostitutes. We got lots of paintings of orgies. Generally str8 porn was abundant showing every possible position one can get into. Hebrew men did go to the fertility temple prostitutes. Both Rome and Corinth and the entire region were sex freaks, but please don’t be stupid on me today humans got to get their sex. Government scandals abound and not just some official gets some nooky, but well planned out sexcapades with paid prostitutes. The Bohemian club where the Bushes attend yearly had their sex involvements (this is the God Moloch in the Bible). History clearly document the sex goings on and so using Paul’s time as example of sexual immorality is just an ongoing thing in human society (this does not make it right, just shows the Bible is talking about this which is the not natural way). The moral order as AOG mentioned is HEY don’t join orgies. It has nothing to do with gays.
Paul wrote, “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?” Then he continued, “Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral[10] nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders . . . will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9,10). In this case, Paul is understood to identify male homosexuals in both active and passive homosexual behavioral roles.11
gays4jesus: “1 Corinthians 6: 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,” KJV is the only Bible that comes from the 2nd century Latin Vulgate that is from the original hand written copies of the originals. “Would it surprise you that the holder of the Copyright of the New International Version Bible also holds the copyright for Hustler magazine - pornography. Rupert Murdock, called "Media's prince of Darkness" by Chicago columnist Mike Royco, owns the copyright & exclusive printing rights on the most sold newer Bible version in the world, the NIV (through Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids Michigan, which he owns). Murdoch also owns the copyright on another corrupt Bible version, the Amplified Version.”
“733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace); from 730 and 2845; a sodomite: KJV-- abuser of (that defileself) with mankind.
1 Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; (KJV)
3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV-- effeminate, soft.”
gays4jesus: There is an interesting trick built into this verse that is completely ignored. This verse is the most controversial in it interruption of just about any other verse in the Bible. This should be a red flag to be very sure you got it right. TODAY there is little excuse not to know how the verse was interrupted over the years. AOG wants it to means one of the men in a gay relationship is like the girl (passive bluntly means Part A is stuck in you, Active means You are sticking it Part B. NOW again 700 million gays how did AOG figure out gays are hooked up together as one being the female the other being the male. NOW sure there are lots of groupings heaped into the term gays. TV,TS,TG,bisexual and more. But when looking at the 700 million gays gay means same sex attraction. ROLL playing is not on the agenda. Guys like guys because they are guys and girls like girls because they are girls. God is fantastic in that who can understand but that when gays become couples (gays do not go search for someone to fill rolls as such) it always is they together without telling each who does what fill the household tasks as it were in balance. There just seems to be something that is already a part of each partner’s lives that takes care of business. Str8s it is often forced on the woman to do what people call women’s work. TODAY it has changed a lot as what appears to be a reversal in many marriages which was a process over years as women fought for rights. I good thanks to lesbians str8 women today can be the one that wears the pants in the marriage. This suits the husband just find, but the Church adapted to the new rolls played in str8 marriages. Many in the AOG still hate women doing man’s work. But overall what can you say it is not going to revert back and so now we got this active and passive thing mixed up in str8s.
Some interrupt Corinthian to mean boy and man. Why does AOG 2nd guess what Paul thinks? Paul particular hated str8 Hebrew men going to male temple prostitutes, this is quite provable and is not up to wish about Paul.
In King James day these 2 Greek words meant “weak and spineless” KJV partly is frowned on TODAY because much was learned about KING JAMES it had been known for many decades if not longer that he was a transvestite. This was rarely mentioned because AOG loved the KJV and the common joking was “Jesus spoke KJ English” But in the 90s it became known he was gay. Several well-known Christian groups told their followers stop using the KJV. Pat Robertson was asked about it. He said anything a gay person wrote should not be used by Christians.
Can you believe it the only Bible that is not a satan counterfeit is about banned by the Church.
These 2 Greek words “catamite and sodomite” though sort of invented by Paul (sodomite) did not lose its OT Hebrew meaning as used in the GREEK it still meant “male temple prostitute” and “expensive call boy” catamite is not simply a street prostitute. Catamite were very expensive and were boys or young men that had to go through channels to purchase. This was a status symbol for wealthy Corinthian men. They wanted these catamite to appear as their lovers. The Bible is not a fly by night wishy washy anything you want to say it means book. Events stories and more are there for a purpose often several layers of meaning relating to the literal event. If catamite is used you can’t wish some general meaning to it, you need to find out who catamites are. This verse as of 1985 author stated and listed 30 Bible versions of the verse none agreed on how to interrupt it so each was different. If 30 modern versions can’t agree how did AOG get it write using a satan counterfeit Bible? (study Westcott and Hort I am not making up how modern versions came to be in your hands today).
gays4jesus: “arsenokoites” Is really the key here (means “male temple prostitute”) Do you know we know exactly how many time this word was use? Paul wrote it down and then Christianity continued on until the 16century that is 1600 after Paul wrote it we know the exact documented in writing that can be found of it Christian use again for 1600 years. You can read in its entirety each time. It is not just the word or a preserved sentence, but the entire article of the Christian writer. Recorded for you today 56 times since Paul “arsenokoites” This is significant. This leave little ground to argue meaning today. One place it is available for you is http://www.gaychristian101.com/Define-Arsenokoites.html . Never did early Christian use it to condemn gays or even to refer or hint to them. Usually it is sex out of species. That link also states “The Greek Language Thesaurus, UC-Irvine, lists 73 occurrences of the arsenokoit stem from Paul’s first century AD use in 1 Corinthians 6:9 to AD 1453.” With this why is it that you insist you are right making 1600 years of Christianity wrong?
gays4jesus: WHY 16th century why not continue the count up to the present? What happened? During the 14th century time frame the Vatican developed the anti-gay doctrine to purge leaders from power, you know create scandals. Sure works today, Say some minister is gay and out the door they go. Well the Protestants did not accept that doctrine right away, they already were leaving the Catholic church in leaps and bound and they didn’t mind gays with them. But over the course of 100 years they finally adopted that anti-gay doctrine. So the natural course of the word “arsenokoites” would change.
gays4jesus:can more happen to this verse? YES THE PURITANS came to America, they brought a heinous version of the ant0gay doctrine with them and so conditioned America more so than other countries. WE hate the puritans and only use them to make it sound like America was founded on Christianity otherwise even the strict denominations would never live like the Puritans sort of like the Quakers of today. What else? In 1850 at a USA clergy convention the verse was brought for discussion. By then it was taught masturbators would not inherit (still another interruption amongst many). They all agreed everybody MB’d so Heaven would be empty and they could not allow that so they decide gays would not be missed as they were already considered evil because in those days the 12 verse doctrine was from the original anti-gay Vatican doctrine. So that day 2 verses were added to the 12 to get the 14 verses. The 2nd is below.
Paul wrote, “Law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals12 . . . ” (1 Timothy 1:9,10, NASB13).
gays4jesus:” 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; “ Versions differ knowing means YOU KNOW. NSAB states it as a fact not something you know. One is written in your heart the other is in a book. NSAB uses a word that is not from the GREEK, in GREEK there are at least 9 words for gays that would be a non-disputation to mean gays. NSAB is a satan counterfeit satan counterfeits came to be when Israel became a nation. They condition you over time that when other great deceptions come you will believe that man over there is Jesus after all. Modern version takes Christ out of Jesus in such a way it is conditioned in over much reading so it is hard for you to understand you have been defiled by satan. This verse does not talk about gay couples it uses the GREEK word “arsenokoites” (male temple prostitute). Hebrew men went to fertility temple for ritual sex with their temple prostitutes.
An unbiased study of these passages makes it clear that Scripture consistently identifies homosexual behavior as sin. Not only do the Scriptures condemn more flagrant examples of homosexual violence and promiscuity, they also provide no support for the popular modern idea that loving and committed homosexual relationships between two long-term partners are morally acceptable. Homosexual activities of every kind are contrary to the moral commandments God has given us.
gays4jesus: “unbiased”? wow that’s a good one. “Date: 1607 1 : free from bias; especially : free from all prejudice and favoritism : eminently fair <an unbiased opinion>” AOG does not know the meaning of unbiased in regards to gays. They would never allow gays to give their testimony or read research done by gays and do comparable research to show unbiasly they came up with facts and sources. Gays are boy meets boy, they date, they fall in love, they marry. In Jesus day gays married just like str8s married, wives were property and servants. Marriage is not our pagan full rituals of the 12th century. Marriage in the Bible was planned schedule chosen controlled by family leaders for profit of the family. Love might be a byproduct but was not required. Marriage were contracts and very specific in Hebrew law. Gay marriages can be found by these type contracts and property servant scenarios. GREEK language is pretty specific in the ancient Jesus day Greek. The GREEK words and use in sentence grammar would tell a modern day expert that placement of words in sentences and using different words in describing a person’s relationship with another within a couple sentences shows they are talking like when we just say our wife or our husband. Jesus heal one gay man’s lover. Can you imagine how anyone can so cruelly compare gays to violent sex behaviors in one breath? AOG says gang rape means gay is sin because that verse does not say loving gay couples are ok. Shall we then read about the many str8 rapes in the Bible that do not have in the same sentence a married couple? Because you do not know how to find real gays does not mean real gay are not in the Bible. So this proves gay is sin because gang rape, orgies in fertility temple, male temple prostitutes is sin? Here is your assignment go into all the world and gather these behaviors in gays and str8s see what you come up with. You will find an unparalleled over normal percentage levels of stra8 doing these things, but somehow str8 is not sin? Loving caring long term for gays is not a modern thing, it has been here since the beginning. We should almost think badly of str8 because 69% have sex on their first dates AND DIVORCE AT 60% RATES these percentages do not change for Christian str8s. What AOG does here is bash gays not showing even a hint of love, treating gays like from their birth they were bent on doing evil and hell is their destination giving gays no hope and will not allow gays to give account of their faith in Jesus Christ.
B. Homosexual behavior is sin because it is contrary to God’s created order for the family and human relationships.
gays4jesus: What does this mean? Contrary to 90% str8 or contrary to 10% gay? This figure is not a magic % is something always been. For a long time in the USA it was very very wrong to have mixed marriages. Yet your arguments would today say at least they were str8. WOW full condemnation of mixed marriages for a long time then suddenly hey. The Bible is full of things the Church totally changed on how it generally interrupts things in the Bible. Contrary is not a 7 billion people issue, it is a group issue. Hebrew peoples got married at 13 commonly enough. There is enough info that says Mary was 13 when she got pregnant. Today Jewish 1st century and early marriage age is contrary to today. To keep girls virgin often they would be sent to day care at the synagogue to protect this very valuable asset virginity. This is contrary to anything we can comprehend today. This is a very poor way to try to make group customs Bible dictates. Christianity is far more diverse. If we do not like a denomination we call it a Christian cult not a church. Most denomination it is contrary to speak in tongues in fact many think it is of satan. Does it make it of satan to us Assemblies of God people? If you say gay is sin then you have 14 verses to show gay is sin. Hey anytime day or night go ahead try to add any verse, you cannot, there is no other verse using anything resembling same sex sex than the 14 (there could be 2 others that talks about the female version of male temple prostitutes so it can make that 16 verses):
1) Gen 19:4-5 gang rape, murder, victims would have been angels, all the boys all the grandpas all men all the people, later Lot's Daughter's raped him and had his babies
2) Gen 22:2 Rib means "Cell from that Rib" Steve is in the DNA (from TBN's well used Hebrew scholar years ago. Not my idea)
3) Judg 19:22 rarely used gang rape, murder, but victim was opposite sex.
4) Deut 23:17 don't be a male temple prostitute, (15 female temple prostitute next verse or 2)
5) IKing 14:24 rarely used male temple prostitute, Lord cast out before Hebrew came
6) IKing 15:12 rarely used male temple prostitute, (how can gays be removed, you don't even know who is gay)
7) IKing 22:46 rarely used male temple prostitute, (left over sodomite removed, if gay how?)
8) II Ki 23:7 rarely used male temple prostitute, (sodomite whore house removed, built against temple of God)
9) Lev 18:22 acts done in worshipping other gods, not comparing loving, caring , long term relationships, woman is a likely adulteress, Hebrew word for man "practicing str8 man"
10) Lev 20:13 acts done in worshipping other gods, not comparing loving, caring , long term relationships, woman is a likely adulteress, Hebrew word for man "practicing str8 man"
11) Rom 1:27-28 Should be 18-32. adults turned from God to gods, God changed them, results visible evil behavior (they went to ritual fertility orgies), 28-32 gays are opposite these verses.
12) 1 Cor 6: 9 expensive call boy and male temple prostitute, 1946 original Greek removed, meant masturbation before 1850,
13) 1 Tim 1:10 male temple prostitute,
14) Jude 1:7 general sexual immorally of Sodom and Gomorrah with no hint of sexual orientation ( best word in Greek meaning "male prostitute" but these were gigolos rare for gay prostitutes in those days).
gays4jesus: To date no person that believes gay is sin has shown me or explained to me or put their explaining for others to see publicly that these verses talks about REAL gays. Again, look at a str8 married couple, NOW find this in the Bible condemning it for same sex. Up to now there is no here to fore un used verse to add to these 14 verses. When people study they can find only one thing. If you study being a homophobe (homophobes are those that refuse to explain how they get gays into a word,, a phrase, a verse other than quoting the verse and assuming that is proof enough and needs no explanations). In a 3 yr. period I talked and had contact of some sort with 800,000 “homophobes”. I am not making this up. Some of these were about as educated as anyone can get in the bible and it languages. I am now taking this attempt to get AOG’s explanations. By AOG’s anti-gay doctrine there is no explanation just assumption that gang rape proves gay is sin to them. This is very contrary to normal Assemblies of God’s sermon research practices. 36 years of hearing AOG sermons and they are filled with intensive efforts to get at the truth of the times. They go into every possible related and non-relation history language science law and anything else even atheist and other religion views to make the teaching on nearly every other possible topic in the Bible. Then many other similar churches and ministry really can get into the nitty gritty of Hebrew life, this increase each years because we have more access than ever and yet why can’t you AOG use this same study and research pattern for gays? The answer is when you try you find gay is not sin. I have talked to many Assemblies of God college professors. They say they are not allowed to teach positive things about gays and some has materials that show beyond doubt gay is not sin right there in their class’s cabinets. AOG you are keeping vital information from your congregations WHY?
The first chapter of the Bible says, “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them” (Genesis 1:27). After God had created the male, He indicated it was not good for him to live alone (Genesis 2:18). So God created a companion for him (Genesis 2:18). It should be noted that the male’s aloneness was not to be remedied by the creation of another male but by the creation of a female. God created two sexes, not just one, and each for the other.
When God brought the woman to Adam, he said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.” Scripture then states, “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh” (Genesis 2:23,24).
gays4jesus: Hebrew tsela` can mean side, chamber, rib, or beam. Evolutionist love the idea of DNA, But it was on TBN and from its resident regular Hebrew scholar they had on Praise the Lord that said the best English word today for this word is CELL. Unless you are going to play like a DNA expert then you at least need to do a little research first before arguing Steve is not in the DNA. I know enough that you cannot say that verse God did not tell us he is pretty cool and on top of things and made the complex DNA latter we hear a lot about today. God through in a monkey wrench, the easy way out would have been to use the other Bible word for rib. If that one was used there could be no doubt he meant a rib. Let’s take a look at the world it is a no brainer to get things to procreate as the term is. Today we have 7 billion would you say that plan worked. We are devastated in many place of too many people. Christians use the pill as often as non-Christians. History often paints a bad picture of Christian treatment of kids (not all bad of course, it’s the point of who messes with God’s plan). Gays are more than happy to take care of your kids and do really often. There happy to adopt your throw away kids. But you do nothing to stop the government from warehousing kids for profit. The church rather kids be in children’s homes than in families. In Jesus day the more kids you had the better, the USA has a 2.5, china 1 child policy. Hey we got to watch world population now. Many gays and in the past nearly all gays got wives. Generally this was a form of social society in those days for gays. History tells us they got their kids so retirement will be good. But as for love they had their male lover. The wife after all was a commodity as so much str8 marriage were anyway.
gays4jesus: the reason Christians today leave parent is not to marry. They go to college, they get a job start a career join the military sow wild oats and more all the while playing Charlie on 2 and a half men. Finally they marry and 60% divorce. So for most Christians disobeying gen. 2:23 and Matt, 19:6 but look here in “10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.” His disciples after hearing the troubles about marriage they thought it better not to marry. Genesis is in the Garden when in the Garden you have to play by Garden rules. The rule is brothers married sisters (isn’t that contrary?) just after the Noah marriage became cousins. Where were blacks, Asians, etc? Oh yeah some AOG call it mini-evolution. I say it was in the RIB.
In creating humankind God established the order of sexuality by which the race was to develop. Psychologically, the relationship is sound. Physically, the relationship is natural. Sociologically, it establishes the foundation for the family. The biblical order for human sexual expression is that of an intimate physical relationship to be shared exclusively within a lifelong marriage covenant—a heterosexual and monogamous relationship.
gays4jesus: It would have been swell if that happened, but unfortunately we have a very different str8 world today. Homophobes is so easily blinded when talking about gays and can’t see past their nose. Any AOG pastor can tell you the line is long at their door about het problems. Jails are full of abuse. Being a Christian does not really change this because the lines are so long in the churches to get help for it. Then teaching often makes it harder to live, because it just does get better. Yes testimony time is great we hear wonderful stories, but when we talk more intimately with Christians suddenly we have valley experiences too not all mountain top. We explain most of this as God teaching us something. But rape incest abuse remains fairly uniform in str8s Christian or not. So AOG statement here reflex wishes and attempts to be non-Bible with rational and logical seeming solutions and explanations. this continues to avoid answer the direct questions about the specific verses used to say gay is sin. All gay relationships do exactly the same as is in the AOG statement above. You say HET because you do not want to explain how you get gays in the a verse and phrase a word.
When people choose to engage in homosexual behavior, they depart from the God-given nature of sexuality. Their unnatural sexual behavior is a sin against God, who established the order of sexuality (Romans 1:27). And the social unit they seek to establish is contrary to the divine instruction for the man to leave father and mother and be “united to his wife” (Genesis 2:24).
gays4jesus: Choice is not in the equation. Blinding yourself from math will never land you on the moon. Gays are gay they don’t choose it. I am 63 years old and there are 700 million gays. Gay is just as natural as str8 whether you like it or not. Romans verse 27 is talking about ritual orgies in fertility temples. Paul did not go to the gay community and saw 2 gays holding hands, Paul went inside a temple that had 1000 temple prostitutes “Near the city's market place were the butcher stalls or meat markets that Paul mentioned in 1 Corinthians 10:25. The meat was often dedicated to pagan idols before being sold. This presented a culturo-religious problem for the Christians in Corinth. Rising 1,500 feet above the city and to the south of the acropolis was a fortified hill upon which loomed the infamous Temple of Aphrodite or Venus. This pagan temple and its 1,000 temple prostitutes greatly influenced the city's culture and morals.”. These are Facts. God knows about talking to masses of people. There are rules of speaking. Every AOG pastors knows there is a diverse group of people in his congregation and he can’t address them all and he know most of them because that is a pastor’s job and gift. So does he tell every it will take 2.5 days for this sermon because I have to make it to cover all the many people here? No, built into humans God gave us the ability to even as a minority to comprehend and apply the message to our circumstance. So the message is done in the 30 - 40 minutes no hassle. God speak to 7 billion people. But the Bible is amazing in all its pages you can find places address to your specific needs. Minority groups forever have used certain areas of the Bible as God speaking to them. Are you going to tell all these people in the world that were People of God or Christian they are full of baloney? No you are not, often you also find for yourself a passage that speaks directly to you from God. Jesus said “9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” So the verse alone does not give gender, so you have to adjust it to fit how you read the verses around it to come up with you conditioning it with it meant joining str8s together. Sorry that is not how the Bible works it is not to please only you but all who read and is for all who read and it is living to them that are Christian.
In Jesus’ discussion with the Pharisees, He reiterated the order of sexuality that God established in the beginning: “Haven’t you read. . .that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?” (Matthew 19:4,5). He pointed out that the only alternative to heterosexual marriage is celibacy for the kingdom of heaven’s sake (Matthew 19:10–12).
gays4jesus: More of the surrounding verses: “ And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”
gays4jesus: In the beginning sex was between brothers and sisters. With Noah started cousin sex. People do not leave parents to get married today, but to do everything else including multiple sexual partners before they marry. Clean up your own act before trying to clean up acts you know nothing about. You know take the beam out of your eye so you can see to take the sliver out of your neighbor’s eye. Catholics tried celibacy which is by choice to be a monk. You are asking 700 million people to stop just because you believe in a false doctrine.
C. Homosexual behavior is sin that comes under divine judgment.
The name of the ancient city of Sodom14 has become a synonym for homosexual behavior. While other evils existed in this community, sodomy was prominent. The homosexuals of Sodom were so depraved that they threatened homosexual rape of Lot’s guests. “Bring them [“the men who came to you”] out to us so that we can have sex15 with them,” Lot was told (Genesis 19:5). The biblical record indicates that the mob became violent and tried to break down the door of Lot’s house. Only divine intervention spared Lot and his household from their evil intentions, and God subsequently destroyed both Sodom and the neighboring city of Gomorrah (Genesis 19:4–11,24,25). God’s punishment of these cities was of such severity that it is used as an illustration of divine judgment by both Peter (2 Peter 2:6) and Jude (7). Jude’s commentary is particularly apt, “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”
gays4jesus: AOG here admits it is gay rape, story should end here as it is about gang rape not love between two people. Yes the cites has become a synonym for gays not because it is Bible but because 700 years ago the anti-gay doctrine was invented. The USA especially has made it into this. Tell me why AOG admits that it was gang rape. It was not the gays of the city it was every boy every grandpa every male and ALL THE PEOPLE. People here means both sexes including children. Sodomy the word was invented in 900AD by the Catholic to forbid sex out of the missionary position. Sodomy seems similar to Sodom because those cities were a good example of sexual immorality. in 900 AD. Sodomy is not a Bible word. Today every Christian married couple commits sodomy as it was coined to mean. Str8s love sex and in anyway the can do it (meaning a married couple does not do missionary position all their married life). It is insane to compare gang rape to a gay relationship. Is there more to confirm that the city was sexually evil? A book considered for the Bible was nearly exactly like Genisis even that each chapter covered about the same things:
“Book of Jasher, Chapter 19
1 And the cities of Sodom had four judges to four cities, and these were their names, Serak in the city of Sodom, Sharkad in Gomorrah, Zabnac in Admah, and Menon in Zeboyim.
2 And Eliezer Abraham's servant applied to them different names, and he converted Serak to Shakra, Sharkad to Shakrura, Zebnac to Kezobim, and Menon to Matzlodin.
3 And by desire of their four judges the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had beds erected in the streets of the cities, and if a man came to these places they laid hold of him and brought him to one of their beds, and by force made him to lie in them.
4 And as he lay down, three men would stand at his head and three at his feet, and measure him by the length of the bed, and if the man was less than the bed these six men would stretch him at each end, and when he cried out to them they would not answer him.
5 And if he was longer than the bed they would draw together the two sides of the bed at each end, until the man had reached the gates of death.
6 And if he continued to cry out to them, they would answer him, saying, Thus shall it be done to a man that cometh into our land.
7 And when men heard all these things that the people of the cities of Sodom did, they refrained from coming there.”
gays4jesus: What we get in researching these cities is yes they were evil but they were not gay cities they were str8 cities. Raping people to death is not uncommon for str8s. It is still so unbelievable that an organization as large as Assemblies of God can even remotely connect ordinary gays to this horrid raping intent. Almost never is mentioned what happened immediately next:
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
gays4jesus: This is just not important enough when daughters rape their father to mention when condemning gays saying God destroyed the 2 cites a punishment for gays. Once again look at your marriage, how did you meet and decide to marry? Compare to the rest of the world’s married str8s. WHY do you know so much about falling in love and marrying, but when gays do this you say it is compared to Sodom and Gomorrah. Jude is mentioned and in Jude is does not say anything about gays it just says: “7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, [Here are the Greek words, see Thayer for more detail:
- 4202 - porneia (fornication)
- 4203 - porneuo (commit fornication)
- 4204 - porne (harlot, whore) or female prostitute (feminine gender)
- 4205 - pornos (whoremonger, fornicator) or male prostitute (masculine)
| · 1608 - ekporneuo (giving over to fornication) Jude 7] |
From Jude 7:
give self over to fornication.
From ek and porneuo; to be utterly unchaste -- give self over to fornication.
see GREEK ek
see GREEK porneuo
ἐκπορνεύσασαι (ekporneusasai) − 1 Occurrence ”
gays4jesus: Above is this fornication in its forms the last one is from JUDE. All the word does is confirm the 2 cities were sexually immoral not gay. 4205 is about as close to gays as you are going to get. Gays are not this unchasted you want them to be, they are just like you concerning sex, meet, date, marry.
The Book of Judges (19:1–30) records an incident in the ancient Benjamite city of Gibeah that has many similarities to the sin of Sodom. Certain “wicked men of the city” (19:22) sought to force a visiting Levite male into homosexual acts16 with them. Denied their insistent requests, the attackers finally settled for vicious sexual abuse and gang-rape17 of the Levite’s concubine that resulted in her death (19:25–30). The other tribes of Israel found the crime so repugnant that when the tribe of Benjamin refused to surrender the offenders, they eventually went to war—decimating the Benjamites (20:1-48).
gays4jesus: Funny how supposed verse to condemn gays turns out they just as easily raped to death woman instead of the man. WOW AOG sure can make gays bisexual anytime they want to fit some verse they want to use to condemn gays. Lets look at what is not shown here:
“29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.”
gays4jesus: Gone un-notice is “his concubine” we thing of concubine as “for sexual use” We have a reference by AOG that though the rapists want the male guest to rape instead they accepted the host’s concubine. We are supposed to not notice this supposed upstanding Man of God was a good host to protect his guest (of course this was a deep custom in those days) but not even given a glimmer of thought to the fact this host had a woman for sexual use. Then to cut her into 12 pieces, what would happen to us today if we did this? Also what father would offer their daughters like Lot did?
“8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.”? So AOG says condemn 700 million to hell but hey praise Lot who offered his daughters to be raped to death, then later the daughters raped their father.
These are particularly notorious examples of homosexual expression that undoubtedly most homosexual persons today would repudiate.
gays4jesus: These are not example of gay behaviors it can be shown over and over str8 men do this sort of wicked things. Research history on gay raping and any sort of evil sexual acts and you will find it hard to find. But do the same research on str8s and it is a dime a dozen easy to find. There are evil gays, but to arbitrarily make it like this is how to condemn all gays is just WRONG. Today’s gays and yesterday’s gays are not that much different. So why don’t you find real gays from Bible days instead of calling gays by such evil names like Gang rapists, orgy joiners, or fertility prostitutes
It should be understood that while expressing abhorrence at such rapacious perversion, the biblical writers do not imply that heterosexuals are not capable of sexual atrocities nor that every homosexual is as depraved as the residents of those ancient cities. Nor should modern Christians draw those implications.
gays4jesus: What is this ? An attempt to cover your bases and lightly admit to str8 evil? Str8s are the kings and queens of sexual immorality. Str8 kept woman as second class people way up until 20th century. Str8s still treat women badly often. This is the curse God put on humans right after the Garden why? Because the first str8 could disobeyed God. (all this may sound like I am against str8s, I flat out am not please don’t so low as to think I am bashing str8s. I am pointing out facts “get the beam out of your eye before you try talking slivers out of other people’s eyes). 700 million gays and for sure huge percentage are in the top regions of morality. Again do your homework gays are taking care of you. The care for you, they serve you, they bless you and you spit on them for making your lives better. Find out who you are persecuting. The Church amputated gays out of the Body of Christ (not really they really can’t just say to someone you are not of Christ) and so the Church got very sick. God graphed gays back in and the Church is beginning to heal. Because you can’t recognize this yet does not mean it is not happening. Behind the scene that you will never step foot is the move of God, God’s love for you is so great he is taking lots of time preparing for your healing so you can reach the Rapture in good health.
It is important to note, however, that wherever homosexuality occurs in the biblical record it is an occasion of scandal and judgment. Homosexuality is never viewed in a positive light.
gays4jesus: 14 verses is your only choice and you do not explain them. You just assume they mean gay is sin. 700 years ago this became Church doctrine, you have 700 years of conditioning to a false doctrine. Catholic created it to create scandals to purge leaders from position that did not have the same ideals. Many verse do in fact talk about real gays and at least 3 Hebrew contractual gay marriages are in the Bible and a few other ordinary custom marriages. It most likely is not possible for someone that can’t explain how they get gays into verse to condemn them could ever see real gays in the Bible. Best approach to homophobes is get their explanation for the verses they use. Since this is not possible homophobes ( because no amount of research will produce gay is sin) may not easily learn about real gays in the Bible.
The biblical writers make it clear that practicing homosexuals, along with sexually immoral heterosexuals and all other unrepentant sinners, will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9,10). Paul also described homosexual conduct as one evidence of God’s judgment for humankind’s corporate rebellion against Him (Romans 1:26,27). Jesus himself was explicit that at the end of the age “the Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:40–42).
gays4jesus: This word “clear” so often used by homophobes makes no sense. If it were so clear then why can’t you explain it? I am writing this because I want your facts. AOG all you are doing is assuming. FACTS 1850 clergy convention for 1 Cor.6:9 and you did not even try to take any time at all to go back to 10 years before Lincoln. You don’t even seem to know about Westcott and Hort. Huge monstrous Assemblies of god with Bible colleges and world mission and churches and still don’t know the smallest bits of info about gays in History. Paul in ROME and CORINTH and you don’t know there is a fertility temple on every corner? Where were the gays. Read as I will in homophobic materials and your antigay doctrine I cannot find that you even tried to locate real gays in Paul’s day. Jimmy Swagger said once (I have the article) a pastor took him to the gay side of town to show “evil gays” Jimmy stated something like “how sick 2 guys even so much as walking on the sidewalk holding hands.” To him holding hands made him sick so much so he adds it to how evil gays are because they romantically walk down the street holding hands. I told Paul Crouch one day soon he would see a famous preacher begging forgiveness on national TV crying. Well we certain saw that as he was caught with his pants down as we heard the details.
“They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” This is the message of AOG to gays. 700 million gays hear AOG saying they will go to hell with no hope in God. But Jimmy we forgive.
II. Homosexual Behavior Is Sin For Which Reconciliation Is Possible.
While Scripture makes it clear homosexual behavior is sin and comes under the judgment of God, it also indicates that those who are guilty of homosexual behavior or any other sin can be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:17–21).
gays4jesus: Then we should see tons of ex-gays. I accepted Jesus at the beginning of Exodus International roots. I have spent plenty of time over the decades concerning ex-gay ministries I know considerable about them and the testimonies of their leaders. Gays do not change and be str8 this is just a fact. I do go into details in my other writing and TV programs and sites. Long story short you like to say gays can be delivered why don’t you research PFLAG started around the same time but has grown faster and larger many times over. This is where you find ex-homophobes for lack of better word. This is where parent did not want to accept their pastors telling them their children are going to hell. So they studied and learned gay is not sin.
“17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
gays4jesus: What happens when we pray the sinners prayer?
God be merciful to me a sinner! I believe Christ died on the Cross for me, that God rose him on the 3rd day, and that His Precious Blood will cleanse me from all my sins. By faith I now receive the Lord Jesus Christ into my heart as my Lord and my Savior; trusting Him for the salvation of my soul. Forgive me my sins. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
Does not matter gay or str8 if this prayer is prayed and meant human get changed. This is what AOG verses they intended to somehow make gays terrible because they are not getting this “reconciled” thing. It can be quite dramatic praying this prayer. Some including me will see and feel the shekinah Glory of God in a cloud they become endrenched in. Tear can flow like large waterfalls and more. One second you are skeptical about the Bible being the Word of God the next you have no doubt at all it is God’s Word and nothing ever can change this change of concept that happened instantly. But look AOG needs to explain gay is sin by no research into gay testimonies to see if 17 -21 took place. Instead they just see the word gay and they base everything on those 3 letters never even attempting to go beyond to the person behind those 3 letters..
In the church at Corinth were former homosexuals who had been delivered from the power of sin by the grace of God. In 1 Corinthians 6:9, Paul listed homosexuals along with immoral heterosexuals as those who cannot inherit the kingdom of God. His grammar implies continuing sexually immoral activity until their conversion. Verse 11 follows with a powerful contrast, “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” They had been homosexuals in orientation and behavior, but now through the power of God’s Spirit their lives were radically transformed.
gays4jesus: again 1 Cor 6:9 I already went over above. AOG’s total disregard to verse history and usage display hate not love.
Scripture makes clear that the efficacy of the death and resurrection of Christ is unlimited for those who accept it. There is no stain of sin so dark that it cannot be cleansed. John the Baptist announced, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29).
gays4jesus: 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
AOG wants yo to look up the verses instead of writing them out so you can see what they refer to on the spot. So I am pasting the verse they choose so you can see right away what they are using. Gays accept Jesus and their sins taken away and they do a 180 degree turn and begin walking towards Jesus as every human does when they accept Jesus. AOG like many Christian groups re-instate Moses’ Laws they want to enforce instead of TEACHING they talk about their conditioning. We don’t know how we learn out language we just remember always speaking it, Out parent remember when we spoke our first words. From birth we see many things over and over again, they can be good or bad. They can be right or wrong. They can be specifically trained into our subconscious without us really having an idea. Because we don’t know how we know something we accept them as GOSPEL truth. Way too often it takes a tragedy, crisis, maybe worse before we begin to see we were wrong. We could listen to those who try to tell us or we could just study to confirm our condoning is right, but most of the time we don’t. So “ burned in their lust one toward another” can only mean gay to many Christians. That is what they didn’t know was drummed into them from birth going back 700 years.
The apostle Paul wrote, “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
The apostle John wrote, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).
Through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit, people, regardless of the nature of their sin, can be made new creations in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:17). God’s plan of salvation is the same for all.
gays4jesus: Example how homophobes think they are preacher needing to preach a sermon and AOG also want to play like who they talk to is needing milk so they play like it is Sunday morning meeting time and so preach a sermon that has nothing to do with the 14 verses but has everything to do with all humans. The issues is AOG thinks gay is sin so they need to show gay is sin not assume it so thing can apply other verses to enhance gay into a much higher evil than str8s. For instance I am 36 years in the Assemblies of God and I have been preaching on TV for over 26 years I certainly should know a bit about these milk mini sermons homophobes love to insert into their condemnation of gays. 90% of this last verse AOG used can be remedied by looking at gay Assemblies of God testimonies. If you look at Mormon gays you may not like it, but they Mormons what would you expect from Mormon testimony? Since you are AOG you need AOGs gays to tell you about their walk so you don’t need to waste time with milk and get into the meat of the WORD. Always waste so much writing space having to deal with unrelated to topic and usually MILK wondering off topic. Is gay sin or not is the topic and this “34-4181 ” is supposed to be a topic about showing gay to be sin, not about “23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” .
The homosexual who wants to be delivered from the penalty and power of sin must come to God in the same way all sinners must come to God, in the same way all who are now His children have come for deliverance from their sins.
gays4jesus: Back to the ex-gay issue. Do your homework on ex-gays. Ex-gay in not about current or near future but about the rest of ones’ life. Church and ex-gay ministries have very brief follow-up periods. Often ex-gay ministries are set up a counseling service that may or may not have a sliding fee scale. Some could be free. But they don’t for many reason follow-up over the years. Then there are tough conditions for ex-gay leaders to follow. They have backing from Church and others to stay delivered. Well they are never delivered and they from the start have to start living a lie by stating they are delivered. At first pretty easy because of a lot of support. But as the years roll by it gets harder because your instinct force you to be who you are. Ex-gays (likely in these case bisexuals who are never distinguished by homophobes) last a couple years while leaders 8 years, but these days a little longer. There is more foresight into leaders these days having made so many mistakes in the past now requirements to be a leader and the protocol so established many of the original mistake are ironed out so leaders in some cases last longer. Yet, testimony of the current Exodus International leader has still the “working on it” phrase (not completely delivered yet). Usually a few questions and any ex-gay that is truthful and for some reason they will TELL ME they still working on it (deliverance). Some homophobes just say its satan or demons. This should be the easiest since Christians can cast out demons and a “how to” manual in the Bible for tough demons. But 700 million gays shows it is not working. I have talked with Bob Larson he would love me to come on his show, but with restrictions I could not do anything but bow to him. My conditions of course is he does all he knows then I do what I know. Hey you are Assemblies of God and so am I for the last 36 years so what do I know about operations in the Holy Spirit and all the trimming and anointing and fire. Even as I am writing this part the Holy Spirit is flooding over me in confirmation of that anointing. Which bring the all important factor about Assemblies of God gays. That is the baptism in the Holy Spirit. What do you suppose an openly gay Pentecostal Assemblies of God gay person knows about walking in the power of the Holy Spirit? I have an open invitation to challenge via the Spirit of God click invitation. I know God will move if I am speaking to any church that remotely believe God moves today. I know God will move even in non-Pentecostal invitations.
The act of turning to God for salvation includes both repentance and faith. Jesus is both Savior and Lord. He is the one who forgives our sin as we believe in Him and repent. Repentance represents a change of mind in which there is a turning from sin in both attitude and behavior. Jesus is also the One whose lordship we affirm in holy living.
gays4jesus: Why are we talking about salvation here? This is just what homophobe force themselves to believe that John 3:16 does not apply to gays. It is one of the most sickening behaviors of those that think gay is sin to tell someone they need to accept Jesus when that person was born again even decades ago and is far more mature in the Word than the Homophobe will be for years to come. Total disregard is so common with homophobes towards gay Christians. If a gay person keeps his gayness secret Homophobes not knowing they are gay will give that gay Christian high esteem saying all sorts of wonderful things about how the see Jesus in them and go on and on about the gay person has such a walk in Christ Jesus. Soon as they find out or if all they knew was they were gay the homophobe colors fly and they say terrible like you can’t be saved, God hate you and worse. AOG tell me why you turn like you got demon possessed when you see the word gay, but if you see the same person year after year sitting next to you and you don’t know they are gay you praise them. Gays accept Jesus and all that follow that is like any human that accept Jesus their lives changed and you can soon see this. But all homophobes see is part A and another part A together. Talking very long with a homophobe the homophobe get more and more vulgar and sexually explicit in their conversations. AOG why don’t you research why it is a part of the anti-gay doctrine to be vulgarly sexually explicit talk to gays. Don’t tell me it is not so that those that think gay is sin are very decent folk just trying to help the gay person. Going over my records and phone message and email and chat records and chat room and other contact in person and some form of correspondence from all over the world and even other religion that use Christian anti-doctrine instead of their religious books to condemn gays to the tune of at least 800,000 homophobes alone I find the more minutes you spend with a homophobe the more vulgar the homophobes gets. My credibility is in many responses I have I my blogs, and other sites from homophobes. What I write is copy paste word meanings, historical records, verses, science fact and other references to show I am not making it up as I go, this sets off the homophobe because I suppose they cannot even paste one reason. Glancing below I see AOG has turned itself over 100% to modern versions in there “notes” section, this had to have begun when “Trask reminded the 47th convention "You can't use the Spirit. The Spirit uses us." He warned against trying to manufacture a move of God or using liberty as for a show of the flesh. When God's Spirit moves, He does not chase people away. He brings people in, he said.
The superintendent closed the message calling for transformation. Don't be afraid of change, he challenged. This is not a surface work but a deep work and life transforming experience, he declared.
Transformation begins with us, he said, transformation of self. "Christ, the Lord of the Spirit, must be in the heart before we become like Christ in character." Then The Spirit transforms the Church and ultimately the city.
How long will this move of the Spirit last? Until Jesus comes, as long as we continue to be changed, Trask said.
AG-NEWS: © 1997 - General Council of the Assemblies of God
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gays4jesus: The concern here is the usage and emphasis of the highest term used by Masons. "The Illumed ones" are in the highest levels of Masonry. General Superintendent Thomas Trask of the Assemblies of God has started this 47th General Council with either ignorance or exact knowledge of this word. Here are Trask's quotes:
1. He wants to do in the Assemblies of God-Illumination, Liberation and Transformation.
2. It is about the work of the Spirit bringing illumination and liberation and transformation!" he said.
3. Rather than concern about how to recognize when we have arrived, he said he prays "we will become so enraptured in the illumination and revelation of who Jesus Christ is as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit that we will be caught up into the third heaven and into His divine presence."
4. Trask emphasized illumination saying God is giving amazing insights as to how He will reach the masses of people in the last day revival.
5. . Asking the lay people in the congregation to stand, he said the Spirit-filled, illuminated pastor will see the potential in the men and women who sit before him or her Sunday after Sunday.
6. He said the illuminated pastor will invest himself in these gifted, faithful individuals and multiply their gifts and his gifts to the reaching of the lost of that community.
7. He said when this illumination takes place, miracles will happen.
8. The illuminated pastor also will see people perishing, Trask said.
gays4jesus: This General Superintendent Thomas Trask of the Assemblies of God has started this 47thGeneral Council with a message that some magic is about to occur with AOG pastors. ”
gays4jesus: The above is from a page on my website the link is in the name Trask above. Before that time the KJV was widely used in the Assemblies and a few years early KJV was really the only well accepted AOG Bible. In 1974 when I began going to AOG it was not really very easy to get modern versions. NIV got its NT on the shelves. So what happened that AOG went to modern versions. I can’t get AOG pastors to acknowledge Westcott and Hort existed let along put modern versions in Christian hands today.
gays4jesus: Repentance is another term that is so abused today. It has evolve to means as a main meaning when talking about gays, that gays are un-repented so going to hell unless they change and be str8, Repentance for gays can be measure by AOG by did they change to be str8 or stop sex flat out. Repentance is really after accepting Jesus you do a 180 degree, it may be a very windy path but it is towards Jesus. To call repentance more than this is to heap unbearable weights on people shoulders that are just trying to live each day as best they can.
“It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-5).
Like the Philippian jailer who asked what he had to do to be saved, those desiring salvation must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:30,31)—believe that He can save from the power as well as the penalty of sin. Obedient faith, like repentance, is a condition of salvation.
gays4jesus: AOG’s belief is sounds ok, but they are not using it properly. Yes avoid sexual immorality, but AOG you have 14 verses to show means gay, so far you have not shown gays in any verse. In your “notes” it is shameful actually that you can use any definition the suits your fancy. You wiped clean the use of AOG’s past favorite Strong’s Concordance and you gone to modern version lexicons that it is 100% impossible to be a rendering of Jesus day GREEK/HEBREW meanings. I am so amazed how low Assemblies has gone to reject God’s word. If you knew the truth origins of modern versions your stomach would fill so defiled as to how you could so with open arms accept these modern versions and also their dictionaries. One ex-gay leader later caught in the act told me he had the absolute correct impossible to be wrong Greek lexicon. He promised to send it to me. One year later he had not. At an ex-gay leader as special guest at a TV talk show this ex-gay leader was there too, at the end I went str8 over to him, he thought to say hi, but I had only this to say, “where is that absolute correct Greek Lexicon you promised me. He said sort of taken back because I cornered him on it that he would send it. I got it in a couple days. I knew there simply is no info that would say the word he had could mean gay. It simply just can’t unless you follow the anti-gay doctrine and its effect on modern version, and that 1850 Clergy convention and other things. REAL fact is the word was used 56 time in 1600 years and never hinted to gays. Sure enough it was pure modern version with homosexual the modern English word replacing any hint of the origin Greek words. Was not even close to the wrong way King James English taught the word. It was really a letdown that someone could believe so strongly they had a definition that they thought was right but is so completely wrong. AOG I have talk to many of your college professors I know you are not stupid, so it has to be on purpose what you wrote in your notes below. There just is too much information available to believe AOG is that sort of blind to actually use interpretation from modern sources. You have TWO manuscript sources, both got translated to Latin Vulgate in the 2nd century. The KJV is from one of them that has been in constant use. KJV became really the only one because of it availably and cost. The other version was satan’s counterfeit version that take Christ out of Jesus subtly. Modern versions are designed t condition believers to eventually accept that man over there and think he is Jesus after all. That version was not used until the 15th century when it became the official catholic Bible. Westcott and Hort translated that corrupt version in the 1880s that became the official Church of England’s Bible where all modern versions comes from no matter what the prefaces say in any of those Bibles. There is a much bigger story behind this Westcott and Hort were not just your Bible translator they were far more evil.
III. A Word to the Church.
Of fundamental importance for every individual, including those who struggle with homosexual temptation or behavior, is the need for reconciliation with God through His Son Jesus Christ.
gays4jesus: Struggle? Any struggling is because people in the AOGs tell gays they are going to hell unless they change and be str8 which is impossible so yes struggle they do because you ask the impossible and Jesus is not going to change them because it is not something to be changed from. Here again the Salvation issue. This is AOG’s anti-gay doctrine it is not to the unsaved. I try to invite people to Christ in every message, but I do not condition as a part of condemning a group by having the way out is to accept Jesus. Especially when they groups is most likely saved already. I am not going to say to the homophobe you need to accept Jesus. As wrong as you are about gays you still accepted Jesus and maintaining belief on his work on the Cross is the only requirement to get you to Heaven. Of course lots of things in the Bible explains things, that why we like calling it the operation manual for humans. I am 63 I accepted Jesus when I was 27 why are you telling a saved person to get saved?
Believers who struggle with homosexual temptations must be encouraged and strengthened by fellow Christians (Galatians 6:1,2). Likewise, they should be taught that temptation is universal, that temptation itself is not sin, and that temptation can be resisted and overcome (1 Corinthians 10:13; Hebrews 12:1–6).
gays4jesus: yep, so when you are tempted to have sex with your spouse go to an AOG person for fellowship so they can help you not have sex with the one you fell in love with and married. You see the message AOG gives to a gay person is cast out the person you love so dearly. Can you a str8 AOG person cast out your spouse? This is what you ask gays to do and you don’t give it much thought. You say temptation can you explain how it is temptation? Is it like when a husband see another woman and get excited and thinks about having her? Is it when a guy dating a girl dropping her off but looking back thinking I want her (sexually). Do those str8s need to call a friend to tell thing they were tempted to have sex with their wife simply because she passed by him as he sat on the sofa? When Christians at work talk about all the hot girls they want they need to rush to their pastor to repent and call a group of fellow church goers to have them talk him into cooling down? Why can’t people dating just date. This has been going on a long time and it is rare it is brought up as any sort of temptation Josh MacDowell’s research said 69% str9 Christian have sex on their first date. If your spouse is hot what’s wrong with saying lets hit the sack? It is called married life and dating life. Most of which no one cares about to think about being tempted. So then why are gays different. The stories you force gays that think gay is sin because that is all they ever hear and now going to groups they must tell sexual fantasies to even strangers of things str8 don’t need to tell and it is their private life and their business, but sicko therapists that think gay is sin forces these gays to tell every passing thought calling it temptation. Yes husband of your wife resist the thought of having sex with your wife or at least do have sex with her. My point again is I am 63 years old I have been with my lover for 21 years, Many gays have been longer with their lovers. Gays are like str8 they date around for a while then meet a person to stay with and disappear from the public scene, but are living decades later with each other still. Why when I look at Stef I have to say I got to run down to a group of Christians to tell them so they can help not have sex with him?
gays4jesus: Orgies and rape and domestic violence and the like yes we need help often for these things, but ordinary spousal love or dating love should never ever be considered temptation. It is a God given way people meet to join each other and become one flesh.
The moral imperatives of Scripture are incumbent upon all persons. However, believers should not be surprised that unbelievers do not honor God and do not recognize the Bible as a rightful claim on their lives and conduct (1 Corinthians 1:18). Peter writes clearly of the conflict and contrast between believer and unbeliever in his first letter:
Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you. But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead (1 Peter 4:1–5).
gays4jesus: A hint that even AOG has to turn more to vulgar ness about gays. The verses used here has nothing to do with gays. Pagans are not a topic. Unbelievers and Not saved they cannot be in any sort of conditions by Christians or the Church. The call of God is Beautiful are the feet that bring the Gospel. Pagan are Gospel only material. Pagan have no rules, they are not God’s people yet. They cannot be compared or associated in any manner accept like you you once were lost but now I am saved. When you decide pagans, unbelievable got to tote your rules and custom you are in total disobedience to God. The governments on Jesus Shoulders. We as Christian knows the destination we were heading for and we know our savior. Let’s introduce him to the unbelievers. We judge them we judge ourselves for they are us before The Holy Spirit drew us to Christ. Never ever condemn the unbeliever, laws are available to them and us in line. Legislating the Gospel is not our business as Christians, we are occupiers till he comes not citizens of this world. For 2000 years Christians has hurt more people than unbelievers and been more violent. Can you imagine Christians allowed black into heaven, though they were not allowed their own pastor and their owners can rape them but they still get to go to Heaven. But gays you not only want them dead by using some verses on them you want them to have no chance to go to heaven. Mass murderers you will accept if they say they accept Jesus. Every prison has ministers to have a gather of inmate believers. You hold open arms for them, but gays you continually non-stop tell them they are going to hell unless they change and some try very hard and can make do for years. Some go 20 even 30 years when it is all they can do and must break free of course they have families then they get crushed. Detestable idolatry even using a modern version form you still get the actual usages of every use of the word abomination in the Bible. It has to be in connection with other gods to be a Bible’s abomination.
As Christians we must both exhort believers to live in moral purity and express in word and deed Christ’s love for the lost. Aware of the claims of God on every aspect of our lives, we must emphasize that we are called to holiness. To unbelievers we must reach out with compassion and humility. We must hold no malice toward, or fear of, homosexuals—such attitudes are not of Christ. At the same time we must not condone sexual behavior God has defined as sinful.
gays4jesus: time and time again pastor after pastor and of course the people in congregations falling to impurity based on AOG use above. People are people, yes try to live well, but 6000 years and the Bible says people often don’t live the way of this purity. If 100% can’t live it then it is not condoning sin to find a way to teach what we can do. Don’t even pretend to go the route of any pastor or any AOG superintendent or leader any place in the AOG as to be living in purity. I know it would not take long to find many faults far form purity. We actually hatred the Puritans and Quaker types we would ourselves as Assemblies of God people live like they do. There are the h Holiness churches they are especially homophobic, once I learn they are in one of these sort of Pentecostal churches it is easy to ask about what they think about other church and yep all others are going to hell, so what’s the point condemning gays no other Christian will go to heaven, they claim this purity stuff can you live like them? Nope your purity is different than theirs and you say they are a cult Christian church anyway. Again, others have gone the purity route its background often is the leaders are nearly gods themselves. But didn’t I cope a 47 AOG Convention article that some pastors are illumed we must listen especially carefully to them.
gays4jesus: 60% is accepted by AOGs, divorces hold about a high normal position as any in the congregation. I read many AOG groups that tell stories of their having sex in the Spirit like it is a spiritual gift and you let the Holy Spirit move in the act. Well maybe sounds kinking, but not from their side of the story, this does not seem to be an isolated group. AOG has a ton of troubles. I am not saying this to mock AOG I am AOG 36 years’ worth I will only affiliates my church as I am Assemblies of God period. Why can’t we just say let’s live the best we can with what we know, read study the Bible. Be taught what pastor teach in sermon and Sunday schools. This is actually how it is working anyway. 36 years and mostly people go to church come home. They will do as they do. Life goes on. Why are you making rules to set in doctrine against gays when AOPG as a whole cannot live in purity? People live good enough. 2000 years Christians are still here. Strictness cause people to fall away and start new churches. My pet peeve about a lot of AOG is they are old folk homes. In my area with all the free high-tech and free access and much more isn’t anyone on fire for the LORD. Some churches have quite a website and interaction, some will block people without so much as a simple click on a name that would bring up lots of info. But there are five or so AOG near me, click on their website and it is non-active and non-interactive and no links to free highly interactive sites, AOG what is wrong with your headquarters. Can’t you inspire your pastors to be excites in the Lord? Jesus is great he is wonderful he is friend and loving and ready to do things with people and he wants to be known. But my community has a few small AOGs 2 are foreign groups. One was pretty good but they condemn me and my TV program many times. They said if I so much as blink they would call the police. I was attending for about 2 months never said a word except return people hellos and God bless you. Pastor and wife (wife in the back row) mocking me in front of the congregation. That church fell he was sent out to pasture, now a AOG from 30 miles away is running it. It would be cool if Assemblies got on fire like they used to. I am on fire I never cooled down 36 years later. I never stop trying to find ways to reach people. What happened to the AOGs? All this morality talk has made you lose sight of Jesus’ love and joy? I want to see AOG heal many, but that is almost a dead issue now especially hear in Seattle. What happened to the move of God in the AOGs? What happened to as Trask said “the Illumed Pastors”? Do you want to see God move on the gay issue, I have written a lot to your hatred, because there just is no love shown in your anti-gay doctrine, there is no hope , there is no way given, you don’t explain how gang rape makes gay sin, so you are telling gays they are gang rapists and temple prostitutes. Where is your hope. I can show it to you I have 100% hope and faith that God will move if I were in a rallies you set up to have me speak. . I am not invited to AOGs because I would show gay is not sin by the move of God. You won’t listen to what am writing but would your accept it if God beyond doubt moved in your sight in a gay person?
Christians should also do all they can to assist the person who has struggled with homosexual behaviors to find deliverance. Change is not always easy but it is possible. It may require the help of others in the body of Christ, such as counselors and pastors, as well as a supportive church fellowship. Christian organizations are also available to help those who seek to change their lifestyles.
gays4jesus: I was healed 3 major instant dramatic times. What take time is you forcing gay is sin doctrine that cannot be achieved. Deliverance and being set free can be instant. Knowing the truth sets you free. PFLAG just does not have the problem ex-gay ministries have because the truth sets homophobes free. One wife of an AOG pastor told me her husband and brother also and AOG pastor always said gay is sin. She never heard there could be any other way to believe or know that there was any other info out their than what her husband said. Then she read what I have said and contacted me and she said she felt so good so delivered because she never knew the other side of the story now she can see both side and the truth and she felt set free and good that she no longer has to hate gays that gays were not bound for hell because they were gay. Pflag does not have slips and fall backs like ex-gays do, ex-gay may never actually accurately never see any fully deliverance in the lifetime. Such a huge difference in ex-homophobes and ex-gays. Ex-gay has to keep the lie alive and condemn gays as do homophobes, some become horrific homophobes. You just don’t hear the dismal failure in PFLG. Again AOG ids showing how to cause pain and perpetuate hate. Sure at first gathered with a new fresh set of apparent friends and help source gays trying to be ex-gay get a false sense of hope, follow this into the future it was all a lie, the hope of ex-gay was false. Go to gay Christian sources you can see real facts like 56 time in 1600 years don’t you think something like that should snap a joint loose? You got to think why didn’t they talk about gays in that 1600 years using the word we use t condemn gays today. It just does not get into your skull they word you use was not used to condemn gays so why are you doing it. Why wouldn’t it make you want to look at that 700 yrs. ago time and see why it changed?
We desire all to be reconciled to God—to experience the peace and joy that stems from the forgiveness of sin through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. God does not want any to perish in their sins; He invites all to accept His offer of eternal life (John 3:16). As part of His church, we issue that invitation to life in Christ to everyone
gays4jesus: still in a mental rut with this reconcile. Here is something you don’t know, God has been moving in the gay Christian community preparing gay Christians to be reconcilers. Why do we need millions and millions and millions and millions of reconcilers? You think you get breaking news from God in prophecies at times about the Last Days. Missing from God to you (though God is not secretive you can learn this) is what God is doing in the Gay Christian community. Most gay I believe don’t know exactly what it this common thread, but some of us know exactly what it is. Very soon and before the Rapture as many as 2/3 of today’s Christians will turn their backs on Jesus. It may not be as simple as this but it might be, the common acceptance of modern versions. But this is not an overnight decision by God. Because of 2000 of church wide sin event were prepared for centuries to shake last days Christian not unlike God moving a disobedient Israel in the OT days. Christians are not different in that they are people just like the Hebrew people were people, we really do have a nature to rebel against God. And we want it our way so we say our way is God’s way. RESULT is soon huge numbers will fall away, gay (my first as it were announcement) are being prepared to restore those that persecuted them to Christ when they turn their backs on him. Gays will tell you Jesus did not forsake you. He is there and with open arms for you to come back no questions ask. Me not God believes huge numbers will reject even such dramatic intervention of these reconcilers. I did not recently get this vision and knowledge and it had many parts to it and is very complex in these last days and will have so many shocking revelations as to make so many Christians really not want Jesus any more. Narrow is the gate and so he who has ear hear. Gays are far more important in regards to prophecy than you could possible think. Do you really think Gays from the Assemblies of God don’t hear God? Do you actually allow yourself think baptized in the Holy Spirit gays aren’t on fire and aren’t filled and anointed and see visions and so forth? I say gay are the opposite of Romans 1:28-32 what implications does this have in considering gays filled with the Holly Spirit. One man in the late 70 and early 80s was gay, he had a very fast faith healing ministry it was fast becoming international and on TBN regularly as he was guest host often on Praise the Lord. They found out he was gay and erased him from the Christian record recently people have been bringing his works back up through the internet. He had a wild early life drugs sex and died, but not after make the world scene that started how we worship God to day. If God used a gay man who was 100% in the closet then. What do you think it will be when some gay Pentecostal gets to step one foot in front of people outside the invisibility forced on them today. I can ask all I want but AOG would not be caught dead inviting me to speak to give account of my faith in Jesus Christ. But in my case pastors in other countries do want me to come and can get 10,000 people. So tempting and what a battle to resist just going. Gonna see 1000s healed and saved first try. It’s so real I can taste it. God say no, USA Pastors need attention. So you want to see Pentecostal action? Is it what Assemblies is about? Yes the whole Bible and all that but it is about you believe in Baptism in the Holy Spirit and this means things like Jericho Marches faith healing casting out demons and so much more, You like faith healing? How about plagues do you like those too? Pentecostalism is not about faith healing and slain in the spirit and joke up is happiness tear of joy. It is also something that when it is time to rebuke you won’t have to guess who is rebuked. I sat in AOGs where a prophet called people that were dong evil,(I mean really terrible people i.e. I over hears assistant pastor talking in a restaurant with staff how the pastor was too much want to live the Bible and not taking advantage of making $$$. I could not believe how an assistant pastor could betray his pastor so) well this sort of things is who the prophecy was for. They would not come up, but the prophet persistent finally drove most obviously innocent people up to the altar for some pedally worry, I could feel it in my bones that was not who it was for those it were for I knew there evil and they did not budge. Not long after that pastor got his way and took over, by making AOH headquarter fire the pastor. 3000 members followed that pastor to his new independent church and the love of God was obvious. Back at the beautiful paid in full church by the fired pastor was the assistant pastor. The church felt dead. They brought in a 700club famous prophetess faith healer. I was short to see some seemly wonderful Christians obviously stayed for their high position in the church. Even with that faith healers that on 700 Club made mountains move the church still felt dead and she seem like a dead tree too. That church lost its life when that pastor that wanted to show people how to get back to Bible days fellowshipping and had Jesus presence always filled the place. So many AOG churches don’t seem to care. God told me walls are coming down. I seen God move in several Assemblies. Assemblies believe in the Pentecostal experience well and so it walls will come down at the word of a sent person. Always choice. I give that in my policy if people want to invite me. Twofold I come as your usual as it were faith healing ministry (I am not usual I any way, you will see much more than a find how do you do be healed in Jesus name) or I come with my challenge to see what God says about gays, not in his word because you believe it condemns gays I believe it does not so what is the point?. The change is you being AOG act in all the Pentecostalism you know to get God to show every one gay is sin. Then it is my turn still AOG like you will operate in everything I know (what do I know AOG so you being AOG should know the possibilities is what I do as an AOG person) I am a cheater I will tell you from the start I already know God will move on the side of gays, it is a done deal. I also won’t need support to keep it fair, It would be just me and just all your congregation and pastor and staff. Sounds fair I think.
gays4jesus: To be continued
Below is the uncommented on part of Assemblies of God anti-gay doctrine
I am posting this before completion so you can start to understand a huge church like the AOG’s anti-gay doctrine is the same thing as daily condemnation of gays. Simply nothing to show how they get gays into the Bible and a total disregard of facts, Bible or otherwise.
Notes
1The term homosexuality is frequently used to describe both orientation and behavior.
gays4jesus: duh.. so guess it is not different from heterosexuality since if also frequently is use to describe both?
In this paper, homosexual orientation is understood to mean sexual attraction to other members of the same sex. Homosexual behavior is understood to mean participation in same-sex genital acts.
gays4jesus: This means we can divide str8s into just being str8 and those that go on to have str8 sex. Homophobes need to talk about sex organs AOG is calling them “genital acts” What is wrong with the old phrase “love making” or make love”?
Homosexual orientation may pose temptations to lustful thinking and behavior, like heterosexual temptations, that are not necessarily acted upon and that may be resisted and overcome in the power of the Holy Spirit.
gays4jesus: 6.3 billion str8 people in the world but only str8 Christians can overcome tempting thought, the rest of the str8s in the world just have no hope and every one of them give into all their sex temptations. Sure does not seem to be right. Romancing has been around a long time and every culture and religion have fantastic love stories and sexual temptation overcoming. Why does AOG need to make it seem like non-believers are sexual immoral with no hope of help unless they become Christian. When a Christian teaches preaches reports or anything they just can’t assume everything. Yes Jesus is the way, but love is built in part of every human and every human faces the same ordeals in love. So called Christians help from God is mostly ordinary human love processes.. Christians do have the advantage because at times they do get plenty of help from God. I get 1000s of miracles in my marriage to my Lover Stef. Some so amazingly in detail of a long point by point prayer to cover all angles and god sometimes answer it within a few minutes. Most of the time it appears in various forms and might be hard to prove as a miracle. But no matter How good God is to Christians God does not forsake the unbelievers love life or daily life. Remember God so loved the World does not mean God turns his back on desires of the lost. YOU were lost once and you have a great many things to say how God was in your life lading you up to accepting him. He loves everyone and is not going to be out being mean to anyone, am talking about ordinary people, not TARES of satan. Christians so often disregard the unbeliever in their words. So easy for Christians to forget their past when condemning people.
Only homosexual lust and homosexual behaviors are understood in this study to be sinful.
gays4jesus: and homophobes hate to use truth or listen to gays. They love to use horrific sex acts to call it comparable to gay loving making. Just about all gays hear from homophobes like the leadership of AOG is they are temple prostitutes and go to orgies in fertility temples.
2This paper is a revision of a position paper issued in 1979. Since that time revisionist interpretations of crucial biblical passages bearing on this subject have been widely circulated and debated.
gays4jesus: Keep in mind 1979 there were almost no easy access materials available to the common people. To get possible and true research and studies on these verses you had to go to gay churches that were in their infancy. They were seeing their 1st decade as a church then. Only way to learn gay is not sin is a gay person reading homophobic materials in Christian books stores like I had to do. What gays find is lies about them. Book after book that was out in the Christian book stores that was saying gay is sin was so full of lies it was sickening. Being gay we know we do not do the things that they are saying we do. It is an outrage that any human calling themselves a Christian can right such lies about people. Like that one AOG pastor’s wife told me, she never knew there existed another side of the story and she felt so defiled to be force to believe one side while the other side kept hidden. However, this 2001 edition has no excuse and they are perpetuating the lies about gays. 1979 to 2001 AOG abandon the KJV and as seen here is using modern definitions. The so called revisionists is a term used to promote the hidden command to its members “DO NOT READ OR BELIEVE THEIR FINDINGS” Bless God and Jesus Christ praises be to his name. Truth is getting out. 1979 was barely seeing the percentage level move up for positive gay acceptance. 2001 it was nearly in everything close to 50/50. NOW in 2010 it is 60/40 in most gay issues being accepted. The Marriage issue is now falling off as a holdback issue. This is not because evil is getting worse as we see the days coming, but it is the steadfast work process that follows hard efforts to human rights of innocent persecuted peoples. Evil that is increasing as we near is the church accepting things that will support antichrist. Several one world religion groups have nearly all the Christian denomination support in some of their causes. AOG in 1997 47th convention evolved in steps taking them into Mason terminologies. TBN has many 33rd degree Mason in strong positions. This is evil getting worse, not innocent gays that wake up and go to work and have a family life not much different than any str8 marriage. Why is it so important to fight gays when you do nothing about the Masons in your mist?
3All biblical citations are from the New International Version unless otherwise noted.
gays4jesus:
Would it surprise you that the holder of the Copyright of the New International Version Bible also holds the copyright for Hustler magazine - pornography. Rupert Murdock, called "Media's prince of Darkness" by Chicago columnist Mike Royco, owns the copyright & exclusive printing rights on the most sold newer Bible version in the world, the NIV (through Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids Michigan, which he owns). Murdoch also owns the copyright on another corrupt Bible version, the Amplified Version.
gays4jesus: The NIV has about 1/8 of the Bible missing and is nearly the worst modern version in corruptions. It is from Westcott and Hort’s 1880 translation. Why hasn’t AOG indicated knowledge about 2 people that has so influenced Christianity today? These two people were occultists and they created the Ghost Club. They hated KJV with a passion. In Google Chrome you get About 436,000 results (0.24 seconds) for these two people. Corruptions in modern version are 50,000 to 80,000 with the design to take Christ out of Jesus and lessen the promises of Jesus. Just set against each other several versions and you will quickly see KJV stand strictly of the Christness of Jesus and his promises and verse by verse it can’t take a person long to see the discrepancies of modern versions.
4Here meaning to refrain from illicit sexual activity.
gays4jesus: “illicit definition il·licit (i lis′it) adjective not allowed by law, custom, rule, etc.; unlawful; improper; prohibited; unauthorized” Pretty much this is good enough meaning. Bible LAW and man’s law and Church often conflict and are not necessarily comparable. Bible LAW means you have to interrupt and use original words and ancient customary usages and more. Hate groups disregard objective research. AOG is a selective research. Older Gays read both anti-gay and gay research because they were forced on anti-gay before readily available other materials and research came. Because AOG does not allow gays in their church to stay unless they get into a anti-gay class or they don’t blink an eye. This does not make the Bible support AOG. The Bible just does not have anti-gay verses.
5Here meaning sexual faithfulness and exclusivity in marriage.
gays4jesus: I been with my lover 21 years. Gays are like str8s they marry, just because AOG won’t call it a marriage does not make it not a marriage under God.
6The Hebrew word found here, to’ebah, is also used in this chapter of Leviticus for various abominable sexual practices of Israel’s pagan neighbors (18:26,27,29,30). Elsewhere in the Old Testament it denotes such repugnant practices as idolatry, human sacrifice, and witchcraft. See R. Laird Harris, Gleason L. Archer, and Bruce K. Waltke, eds., Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Chicago, Moody Press, 1980), 2:976–77. It is not uncommon for revisionists to attempt to explain away the plain meaning of the text by assuming the homosexual acts to be judged wrong only because they were associated with pagan religious practices forbidden to Israel. However, nothing in the passages cited supports this interpretation and the fact that homosexual practice is implicitly or explicitly condemned wherever it appears in the biblical text negates this interpretation.
gays4jesus: 100% of the use of abomination in both OT and NT is specifically describe as in worshipping other gods. Because, AOG won’t show you research they have (many AOG professors and AOG Universities have material in their cabinets in the classes. I have talked to a few of them personally and have reports of many more) Leviticus’ chapter 18 and chapter 20’s use of abomination with man with man is actually acts in worship to other gods, no way around it. But to understand the verse you can’t just read the English version. Hebrew is like Greek it can have a few word to English’s one word. In the case of man it means “practicing str8 man” the woman is most likely an adulteress woman via Bible teaching on itself as to related passages. WHY because God is a jealous GOD and he teats his people like their his wife. Adulteress connects the story in its parts to God’s description AOG knows only too well and preaches often we are like God’s wife. And of course we are Jesus’ bride. It is no big step of the imagination to follow history of Moses’ day to the fertility worship which the whole chapters there relate to know that Hebrews were always after other gods and specifically fertility gods including going to sexual orgies for those gods. To deny the real other gods in levities is dumb and a shame to such a large Christian church’s supposed knowledge of biblical things.
gays4jesus: I had a sudden unexpected oral voice that no one could hear, but it was loud and clear to me. I was in a Christian book store a decade ago while waiting for car service across the street. I happened to look in a book of a famous long dead preacher, maybe it was Moody, but I would have to dig up my info, reading Moody about reminded me of this loud voice. I had just read what was supposed to be really good Lexicon and reading his commentary he said every other word “homosexual” as to a meaning of a Greek word. I what fit to be tied and was about to go into a frustrated complaint to God and before I got a word out this LOUD voice said “I KNOW I WAS WORNG I AM SORRY” I knew this was not god nor a demon. The voice took ownership of this writing in that book and apologized to me. You can explain it how you like. I am not one to shut up if I get in to needing to vent out frustration of lies people say. It shut me up completely. What can I say, the man apologized for writing lies about translating a word for male temple prostitute to homosexual. I still wanted to vent frustration, but that powerful apologize took me by surprise and I was amazed how I did not get hardly a word out and the answer was there in a loud oral voice to this day I know it was that man that wrote that book that was a dictionary for Bible words. If you want to put gays as illicit then you had better be right and you are not and a price will be paid one day and you will know it is God. You will not like how he tells you. Spankings are no fun and God set 1260 days aside to spank the Church for the last 2000 years of Church disobedience. To understand this we are in the 7th disobedience to God in Lev 26
7“[N]atural intercourse,” New Revised Standard Version (NRSV); Greek chresis has to do with sexual intercourse in such contexts. See A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature, 3rd edition, revised and edited by Frederick William Danker (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 1089.
gays4jesus: 1989 is not a good year for Bible dictionaries. Bible dictionary do not improve with age, they incorporate evolve belief and add new meanings from centuries of conditioning. 1 Cor. 6:9 is such a verse that has gone through many transformations the last being in 1850 and the Bible word change in 1946.
8Ibid.
9Greek aschemosyne, “shameless deed.” See A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 147.
gays4jesus: yep what an example of the need to show meaning of a word not relating to showing a word that means gays. Homophobes want gay to be sin so they heap onto gays evil words.
10It is important to note that Scripture is even-handed in condemning heterosexual sins as well. Along with homosexuality, the apostle Paul includes such heterosexual sins as adultery, fornication, and prostitution. (See also such passages as Gal. 5:19–21 and 1 Tim. 1:10.) The Assemblies of God stands against all sexual immorality, heterosexual or homosexual, and calls all participants to repentance.
gays4jesus: yes str8s sin and so do gays, but you are not doing your ordinary hey were all sinners here, you are targeting innocent people they never hurt you. That just are living their lives, you forced them to take a stand that they will never turn back on. You opened the door in your ant-gay doctrine and you taught with other churches people to hates gays until one day that was all they would take so it took a few transvestites in a gay bar to turn the world upside down concerning gays. Christian gays already beginning 2 years earlier. We are now entering the day of Pentecostal gays. As Assemblies of God tell me what that means..
11“[M]ale prostitutes” is translated from the Greek plural of malakos; “homosexual offenders” is translated from the plural of arsenokoites. The terms are defined respectively as “the passive male partner in sexual intercourse” and “the male partner in sexual intercourse” in Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida, eds., Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains. Second Edition (New York: United Bible Societies; 1988, 1989) 1:772. See also the respective entries in A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature.
gays4jesus: “Define Malakoi - Most Christians For The Past 2000 Years, Have Not Understood Malakoi To Mean Homosexual”
How Did Jesus Define Malakoi or Malakos?
| |
The teaching of Jesus.
In the Bible, Jesus never used malakoi to refer to homosexuality. Jesus used malakos, (the singular of malakoi) in Matthew 11:8 and Luke 7:25, to refer to soft luxuriant clothing worn by rich people.
gays4jesus: clicking Malakoi you will get many famous Christian ministers’ view on this word.
malakos (malako/$, NT:3120), "soft, soft to the touch" (Lat., mollis, Eng., "mollify," "emollient," etc.), is used (a) of raiment, Matt 11:8 (twice); Luke 7:25; (b) metaphorically, in a bad sense, 1 Cor 6:9, "effeminate," not simply of a male who practices forms of lewdness, but persons in general, who are guilty of addiction to sins of the flesh, voluptuous. (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)
gays4jesus: “The phrase we want to look at is: nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. According to Strong's the Greek word translated as effeminate is #3120, malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite. A catamite, according to Webster's is a kept boy. In these days it was very common for young males to prostitute themselves to older, wealthy men in exchange for money, education or a place to live. These were not intended to be love relationships. Many of these men were married to women. These boys were simply kept for sexual purposes as live-in prostitutes.”
gays4jesus: Why did AOG not use the vast amount of info on 1 Cor. 6:9 that is available? It is the NIV copyright now owned by Hustler magazine. NIV where 1/8 of the Bible is missing. Where it is from Westcott and Hort’s translation. How did AOG get passive partner? A Catamite is a catamite, no need to breakdown sex acts of prostitutes they do what they are paid to do. And history is not slack in details of what they did do. But to toss this into meaning gay sex is very dumb and hurtful to masses of people. Using materials so recent is not wise for Christian researches unless they are showing evolution of Christian teachings. Yes today we got a lot more powerful tools to research ancient times. Homophobes like to pick and choose this is what they accuse gays are doing and call them revisionists.
12Plural of arsenokoites.
13New American Standard Bible.
gays4jesus: NAS a modern version that is rooted in Westcott and Hort’s translation. 733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace); from 730 and 2845; a sodomite: KJV-- abuser of (that defileself) with mankind.
1 Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; (KJV)
“A SODOMITE” is not just for playing games with GREEK so you can send 700 million people to hell. It means whatever is being talked about or described is a “sodomite” PERIOD. So the research must extend to discover what a SODOMITE is. In GREEK for 2100 years “arsenokoites.” Is document in use and never a hint to meaning homosexuals. Paul wrote the word first for Christians in the Bible. During the next 1600 years that word was used 56 times by Christians. I am not making this up. If this is so then why can’t AOG read those document times. There are not many so reading 56 documentations, easily accessible with one click here are the first 8 times:
“The First 56 Uses of The Arsenokoit Stem
1. Paul, I Corinthians 6:9. This is the first historical use of the word. Paul does not define the meaning of arsenokoites.
2. Paul, I Timothy 1:10. This is the second historical use of the word. Paul does not define the meaning of arsenokoites.
3. Sibylline Oracle 2:70-78. The context is stealing, falsely accusing and murder. The meaning is not defined.
4. Epistle of Ignatius to the Tarsians. Ignatius quotes I Corinthians 6:9 without providing a definition.
5. Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians. Polycarp quotes I Corinthians 6:9 without providing a definition.
6. Define arsenokoites. Acts of John 36. The context is robber, defrauder, thief but no definition is provided. Arsenokoithj is translated sodomite here, which indicates a shrine prostitute.
“36 Thou that rejoicest in gold and delightest thyself with ivory and jewels, when night falleth, canst thou behold what thou lovest? thou that art vanquished by soft raiment, and then leavest life, will those things profit thee in the place whither thou goest? And let the murderer know that the condign punishment is laid up for him twofold after his departure hence. Likewise also thou poisoner, sorcerer, robber, defrauder, sodomite [shrine prostitute], thief...”Acts of John, 36.
7. Define arsenokoites. Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor 3.11. Clement twice quotes I Corinthians 6:9, without providing a definition.
8. Define arsenokoites. Aristides, Apology, 13. Aristides, a Christian preacher, delivered his Apology around AD 125. The context is interspecies rape or pederasty, Greek gods killing, committing adultery and arsenokoitia with humans.
gays4jesus: Hebrew: “6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.
6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.
This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin.
gays4jesus: gays are 2 guys (2 girls) meet, date, fall in love, then marry. This is exactly what str8s do. Find this in the Bible and you got a point to make. Gays are like str8s they are in every culture every religion, every country. They work, play, in the same fashion. They break law and abuse sex just like str8s. But as a orientation they are like the str8 orientation. It and its acts are not sin, it is the abuse and the abuse is common the orientation has no bearing on sex abuse. All 14 verses used against gays pinpoint sex abuse. I bet someone out there if did a search and recorded every instance of str8 sex abuse in the Bible. Yet no homophobes cares to say 300 verses talks about str8 sex abuse. You just auto figure yes str8s do sexual immorality but we don’t have to pay a lot of attention to how many verses or any listing of the verses or really call up a verse. You just somehow magically know yep str8 sin this way but it has no bearing on is str8 sin or not. But concerning gays you make sure you lists as many of the 14 verses as you can which only show abuse and actually provable to be str8 men conducting the abuse. It is about the easiest thing to find fertility temple all around Israel and books galore about the details of their acts and orgies. But try to find where any Bible character has gave a description of any sort of family life of gay couples. Let alone name places visited that where mainly gay establishments. Paul did not mention gays because he was specifically disgusted with Hebrew men going to these fertility temple prostitutes. History does document real gays living in Rome and Corinth and what they did and how they lived. Why can’t you show where Paul in the Bible or in any other writing gone to real gays? Why don’t you dig up documentation showing real gays in those days. Why are you assuming all gay in Paul’s day were male temple prostitutes. Why do you always say it does not matter what matter is all acts of male sex to male sex is condemned. Your all sex verses are the 14 verses where it describes behaviors gays just aren’t or ever did do. Yes it is no doubt likely gay pagans got the call from their fertility temple priest to become a sodomite. There is lots of research into this felt call. It goes like this a guy sitting in the congregation hearing a message from the priest that what a divine call to be a male fertility service to the gods. I gut like in a Christian church feel a strong urging (we call this the Holy Spirit when it happens to us) he actually jumps up and goes to the pagan alter and often would cut off junior. When he heals often he dresses like women and is ready for service str8 patrons of that temple and guest patron like Paul hated so much Hebrew married men. Certainly this sort of common sense could make that sodomite a gay man. In that temple he is thought of as sacred. Sodomite were not people of God, they were from pagan religions. Unbelievers just simply cannot be in the equation for comparison because they don’t believe in God of the Bible. Sodom had a few believers all in Lot’s immediate family. The rest of the city were pagans. Why use a story to condemn 700 million gays which are in many religions including Christianity. This about it these pagan temples had priest, shall we compare these otherwise str8 men to Christian pastors? Bet you don’t think about do you? But you immediate condemn gays and class all gays into the male temple prostitute class.
14Some modern interpreters claim that Sodom was condemned in Scripture only for its general wickedness, not for a reputation of pervasive homosexual behavior. They also conclude from Heb. 13:2 (“some people have entertained angels without knowing it”) and Matt. 10:14,15 (“shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town”) that the sin of Sodom was nothing more than inhospitality. It is further claimed that even if the references to Sodom describe homosexual behavior, it is actually male rape, not consensual homosexual relations, that are denounced. While the Genesis account does not answer all our questions, it is clear from the story itself and the many references in both Testaments that promiscuous and violent homosexuality is in view.
gays4jesus: There is a tremendous move in documentaries that imply over and over again using their research to say the Bible is wrong or God was an alien. They use the same people as narrators year after year and each new rendering is steps closer to calling the Bible a lie. The modern interrupters you should concern yourself with is the ones that got the NIV in your hands. You are being conditioned to accept anti-Christ as Jesus. My background is 36 years in the Assemblies of God. There are only two major differences I have. The gay issue, which should not really be classed as a difference for it is just a concept with no real easy answers to finding and has nothing to do with the message about Jesus. The Bible is about just not about doctrines we invent over the years. The other is about the Last Days, this is so serious because if AOG is wrong then all they preach to that believe their last days doctrine will suddenly be faced with events they may not be able to bear and it is very likely huge numbers will turn their backs on Jesus. With the adoption of the NIV you are allowing and promoting possible conditioning the when certain great deception become released will match the conditioning modern version do and so that man over there who we condemn every way we can doesn’t seem like it was he we were condemning but just maybe Jesus after all. It is AOG that says every boy, every grandpa, every male, and all they people (including women) means gay is sin. What the story says is someone overheard God talking to Abraham that they were on the way to destroy Sodom. That person used his cell phone and called someone at Sodom to tell him a couple of guys were on their way to possible do harm.
Book of Jasher, Chapter 19
“3 And by desire of their four judges the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had beds erected in the streets of the cities, and if a man came to these places they laid hold of him and brought him to one of their beds, and by force made him to lie in them.
4 And as he lay down, three men would stand at his head and three at his feet, and measure him by the length of the bed, and if the man was less than the bed these six men would stretch him at each end, and when he cried out to them they would not answer him.
5 And if he was longer than the bed they would draw together the two sides of the bed at each end, until the man had reached the gates of death.
6 And if he continued to cry out to them, they would answer him, saying, Thus shall it be done to a man that cometh into our land.”
gays4jesus: So we get a good idea of the nature of the men in Sodom. (this is not even a resemblance of any kind concerning really any gay people, we do have enough stories about what str8 men do so even this may not be that farfetched).
“3045 yada` (yaw-dah'); a primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively, instruction, designation, punishment, etc.) [as follow]: KJV-- acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, makeself) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.”
Violent homosexuality what sort of phrase is that? It is called Attempted gang rape with the intent of killing their victims. Abraham recued the King of Sodom for the sake of Lot. The description of the recue shows only a cities that has to have many otherwise norm attributes such as families. Jashur does describe marriages. Bones of women and children and men found together near the thought to be site of that region and much more to indicate it was not a gay city. Jails therapists will tell you it is common otherwise str8 men will turn another man into a woman in their minds and subjugate them and rape them. Once out of prison they resume with not a skipped beat subjugating women again as they did before jail.
15“[H]ave sex” is in this context an accurate translation of the Hebrew yada’, which means “to know” but is frequently used as a euphemism for sexual intercourse (Genesis 4:1, NRSV). The word is also used to denote sodomy (Gen. 19:5; Judg. 19:22) and rape (Judg. 19:25). See Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, 1:366.
gays4jesus: this frequent use stems from Bible word “knew” not “to know” again “3045 yada` (yaw-dah'); a primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively, instruction, designation, punishment, etc.) [as follow]: KJV-- acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare,
be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, makeself) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.”
My point here is just not to accept something someone saying but look it up. I have no doubt about Genesis 19 talking about gang rape, but I believe to understand the story you need to know the words used and what the meant in Hebrew. Not to so as AOG did, use the hey everyone just knows “to know” means sex. The word in chapter 19 is telling they did in fact know and did in fact wanted to know more about why they were in their city as they knew something was not right with those two.
gays4jesus: “sodomy” is a word invented in or around 900ad. It has a story behind its invention. Sodomy in it fairly short history (1110 years) evolved to mean nearly exclusively gay sex. It originated as a need by Catholic leaders to condemn every sex act except the missionary position to generalize it in a simple phrase. Judg 1922’s story is a gang raped a woman, how do you get gays out of it? Gays are not switch hitters. Bisexuals are. The woman’s title was concubine.
16Hebrew yada’. See previous note.
17Hebrew yada’. See previous notes.
All Scripture quotations, unless otherwise indicated, are taken from the HOLY BIBLE: NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®; NIV®. Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society. Used by permission of Zondervan Publishing House. All rights reserved.
gays4jesus: “Would it surprise you that the holder of the Copyright of the New International Version Bible also holds the copyright for Hustler magazine - pornography. Rupert Murdock, called "Media's prince of Darkness" by Chicago columnist Mike Royco, owns the copyright & exclusive printing rights on the most sold newer Bible version in the world, the NIV (through Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids Michigan, which he owns). Murdoch also owns the copyright on another corrupt Bible version, the Amplified Version.” I bet AOG doesn’t care.
©2001 by the Assemblies of God Gospel Publishing House Springfield, Missouri 65802-1894
Printed in the United States of America.
Quantities of this position paper can be ordered in booklet format by calling 1-800-641-4310 and asking for item #34-4181.
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I am available to speak at your church or group or rally (invite me), also I ask any AOG representative to an interview.
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