Saturday, October 24, 2009

Born Again

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John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (KJV)

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)

Personal relationship with Jesus starts when you pray
a simple prayer like this:

God be merciful to me a sinner! I believe Jesus Christ died on the Cross for me, that God rose him on the 3rd day, and that His Precious Blood will cleanse me from all my sins. Forgive me of my sins and come into my heart as my Lord and my Savior. Help me Lord to do thy will each day. In Jesus name, I pray. Amen.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (KJV)

John 3:4-7 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (KJV)

The picture above captures it all. As soon as you finish praying to God such a prayer 9worded as you like) and you mean it, Jesus hold you up as a newborn and starts his personal relationship with you. No other religion offers anything like this.

Up to this point, you were on your own. You have friends and loved ones, but really no one that knows you really. What kind of life you had did not matter; it may have been a pretty good life or had plenty of troubles. Somehow, you wondered what was to come, who is right.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (KJV)

Accepting Jesus is by faith, which means it is something not seen but believed in. Doing good deeds may be nice but will not save you. Now that you are Born Again perhaps, write this date down to remember it like a birthday. Also, let me know you accepted Jesusclip_image004 Now, go to church to hear the WORD preached and be with other Christians especially since Jesus’ return is getting close.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (KJV)

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. (KJV)

Reading the Bible is how you get to know Jesus and why he came and to get ready to hang in there.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (KJV)

Knowing Jesus and keeping your relationship with him you can by faith be steadfast, and you can hold fast, and stand fast, in your faith by persevering/enduring to the end (Jesus’ return).

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (KJV)

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. (KJV)

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. (KJV)

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (KJV)

Repent:

3340 metanoeo (met-an-o-eh'-o); from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction): KJV-- repent.

Repentance:

3341 metanoia (met-an'-oy-ah); from 3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication reversal (of [another's] decision): KJV-- repentance.

com⋅punc⋅tion [kuhclip_image005m-puhngk-shuhclip_image005[1]n]

–noun a feeling of uneasiness or anxiety of the conscience caused by regret for doing wrong or causing pain; contrition; remorse. any uneasiness or hesitation about the rightness of an action.

These words are often misused and Christians can tell you you got to change from about anything they want often nothing to do with the Bible.

You know you repented when you accepted Jesus. You once did not believe he was the Son of God and now you do. You are finding as time goes on many things are different and that you have changed in many ways. We love to say we did a 180-degree turn around from heading to hell and now heading to Heaven. This is very easy for you to see but others may have a hard time seeing you past verses you walk since you meant Jesus.

Once you did not believe and so it was hard to believe God is real let alone sent his Son to shed his Blood for our sins. But now Saved we actually have the proof we fought so hard to get while in unbelief. Proof is daily that God is REAL and Jesus is with us. Faith still a main stay in Christianity as we see through a glass darkly but soon we will see clearly. We see enough now to know God of the Bible is REAL.

West Seattle pastors urge rejection of Ref. 71

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October 22, 2009

Dear Editor:
Because marriage is the foundation of our society and the first institution created by God, we, as pastors believe in the need to support the institution of marriage as God created it, the union of one man and one woman. As recorded in the Holy Scriptures; “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.” Genesis 2:24 NIV.

gays4jesus: 1st the NIV is a modern version every pastor really needs to do more research on the Bible they choose to use. The Catholics adopted the corrupt version in the 15th century and protestant got the 1st form of it as the official Church of England’s Westcott and Hort’s version. 1946 saw the first modern versions coming from the Church of England’s Bible. The only non-corrupt version is the KJV (not NKJV). Now we have large numbers of versions ranging from 50,000 to 80,000 corruptions that take Christ out of Jesus. As for Gen 2:24 also found in Mark 19 Christians are given a command that nearly all do not obey. The reason for leaving parents is almost never to marry.

IKing 11:3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines

Wives of King David

· I Chronicles 3. In a few sentences it lists all descendants of King David, from his 11 children by 7 wives to descendants of King Solomon, some 30 generations. I Samuel also mentions another wife.

· Eight wives were named in the Bible, but there were numerous other wives that were not named.

· Ahinoam the Jezreelitess, Abigail the Carmelitess, Maachah the daughter of Talmai king of Geshur, Haggith, Abital, Eglah, Michal, and Bathshua the daughter of Ammiel.)

2 Sam 5:13 And David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David. (KJV)

1 Chr 3:9 These were all the sons of David, beside the sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister. (KJV)

All the main characters in the Bible that were male just about had many wives and concubines. In the Garden brothers and sisters married. Of course one of the woman that basically saved the Hebrew from destruction was one of a large number of wives of a foreign King. It was Christian legal to have concubines up till the 11th century. Today’s style of marriage is direct from pagan customs. Marriage of Jesus’ day was nearly completely planned from birth for family profit. That legal system made women property. Comparing today’s marriage with the past is not all that good because it means all Christians are not in a Bible marriage. For Christians to think the way they marry today is of god means they have to accept marriage evolution.

Matt 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (KJV)

If God joined 2 people how can you try to put asunder it? 2000 years of Christianity and marriage evolution, making a quick statement like as to render marriage as you wish it just is not Bible or real life in the Christian community. If you base the correct way on an impossible to fulfill ideal (because we have the record in the Bible and outside the Bible) then how can you legislate others when you cannot even get a decent percentage of Christians following what you claim is Bible marriage. Now real Bible Hebrew and Greek the Language and the grammar also defines people that are quite gay and quite legitimate in God’s eye with no condemnation. Intense research into language use of Jesus’ day can 100% prove Jesus used a phrase that was talking about real gays and that a lot of Christians could not accept what he was saying.

The Apostles also stated at one point “it is not good for man to marry” I am not saying marriage today be str8s is wrong or against God, I am saying real life fact is today’s customary marriage almost worldwide comes from pagan fertility rituals for marriage.

We also believe that under marriage, the institution of the family is the next most important institution of our society and one of the main reasons God created marriage.  We believe that children need both a mother and a father and same sex marriage denies them of either one or the other. 

gays4jesus: Here you effectively condemned single parents that have lost a spouse due to death (besides the 60% to divorce) many are single parents because of nothing to do with any hint of immorality. Now your statement places them with gays in your stated pronouncement against 71. God is quite remarkable and has a lot of people that would call the Catholic Church run by Masons and evil men for most of its existent. I got so much info about the Vatican and Catholic leaders and it is available with little effort. Generally, in Protestant circles they broadly condemn Catholic as a belief system and often are not that polite about it. Calvary Chapel is a good example. You got 2 vastly different Christian systems working together almost as though satan and Jesus working together for common good. It is like joining the enemy just because they hate the same group of people. When God said Adam and EVE

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. (KJV)
Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. (KJV)

gays4jesus: The Bible so vaguely goes over marriage, that it is amazing the Church develops such a detailed doctrine about marriage based on almost no info. Women did not seem to have a problem becoming wives of sons of God.

Other books of very ancient days goes into lots more detail. But, when we read the Bible about most marriages we find most have many wives and they also produce babies with their slaves even wives having competition using their own slaves girls. Once King David was extremely depressed and his staff brought him a young girl for sex. David did not have her, but not because he would have refused her, but he said the country is being lost how could he enjoy sex while the country falls apart.

Yes many great and wonderful real life marriages and families but also, Christians have been about a worst as humans can get concerning the supposed reason to get married “to have kids”. Church history has a great deal of facts about Christian dropping their kids off on church doorsteps abandoning them. Today, the streets are filled with kids that hate home in these as you say God ordained marriages. You can’t even manage them or help them or these families but, you seem to find plenty of time to wreck gay families. What really is it that you don’t like? Gays do not get in your way at all. Str8s get married and there is no interference. Bu, yes remember Christians in the south said if a white person talk a black person to read it was a sin and no black was allowed to preach even to themselves. The church over the last 2000 has always been looking for innocent ones to persecute and you are deep in persecuting the innocent ones too.

It is important to realize that Ref. 71 is a cloak and dagger attempt to overturn our state’s Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which defines marriage as between one man and one woman.  Proponents of Ref. 71 have stated that same sex marriage is their ultimate goal.

gays4jesus: Cloak and dagger?? You mean people like you that believe the false doctrine that gay is sin petitioned churches with readymade signers preaching sign the petition to make a law that states what you want. The law was not there before what it is is you want to keep that law that was a hate law made by Christians that refuse to study the bible on the verses they use to condemn gays. Gay is not sin and you cannot show it. I know you cannot. I personally had talked or had contacts with over 800,000 homophobes. I stop adding several years ago maybe over a decade ago. Not one of them had done more than say God hates it, it’s in the Bible it’s so simple and clear or they just quote a verse saying read it yourself as though I have never read it. I have been on TV over 25 years talking about these verses and much more on this issue. Once before Oregon homophobes came to Seattle to try to pass a law that would force the gov’t to fire gays and if anyone hid gays they also would be fired. It became infamous because there was a flap on the petition that hid that the bill would also include minority races and that it would class all these too and not just the gays as having sex with animals. The flap was discovered and the petition thrown out. Same sex marriage is an identical process as any other human rights issues anywhere in the world and throughout history. There are steps people take to gain these human rights. Blacks fought long and hard and slowly decade-by-decade even century by century gain something close to equal rights. Women fought for the right to vote and scary that was in the 1900s nearly our modern day. The process is well time tested process. You change things either by war or by standing up for your rights. At first people, get killed for it. Then it begins to be accepted. Marriage between races was fought against by the same sort of people you are. Probably you don’t like it but at least you will not deny a black person from marrying a white person right? It was not long ago, I am even old enough to remember those days.

However, it is mute; you cannot stop what is right. What you find in human rights efforts is God is always on the side of the persecuted innocent ones. Church history shows the Church always had people to persecute. You sure don’t learn well that they does not go over well with God, though very patient God does not hold back forever. Country by country state by state legal marriage acts are put on the books. It is getting close to the point where the remaining states will see that it just is no longer worth the fighting since so many other states have gay marriage laws. It’s a matter of time. In 1985 online in Christian chat rooms first AOL then YAHOO mostly (there were many Christian chat rooms in both) I was in them every day with my screen name “gays4jesus” in 1985 (also the years I went on TV every week) there were no other gays or openly gay people in those rooms, so when I entered them I took over, not that it was my intentions, but because homophobes saw my screen name and so began attacking. In 1985 I already was well aware of the verses and the bible in detail on this topic, I knew the truth. I knew the history I knew the words and how they were used I knew present day gays and historic gays, I knew homophose had nothing but lies to say about gays and they would never back up what they say like if you read this you also will not back up what you say. All you are doing is saying you do not want gays to marry because you believe that is God’s will. ^50 million gays tell me how do you know God’s will for gays. Do you go to gay churches? Do you walk a mile in their shores? What do you do to show gays are the evil peoples you claim the verses are talking about? You don’t and you won’t. I can beg you for decades and you won’t spend any time at all studying about gays. You have 700 years of conditioning that you auto responded with.

Ref. 71 is strategically crafted to accomplish this by doing what similar legislation has done in other states, such as California passing legislation that places domestic partners on par with marriage, then filing a lawsuit to compel the courts under the equal protection amendments to overturn DOMA and redefine marriage to include same sex couples.  If it wasn’t for the voters of California passing Prop. 8, California would have same sex marriage.

gays4jesus: You just don’t get it do you. You attack; gays are not going to take a back seat to those that persecute them anymore period. It is a machine now. Not to take the humanness out of it but it is a mechanism that God set so that the innocent can have a say and get changes made. You can’t stop it. You can fight it and win battle, but you can’t win the war. Gay is not sin. You see up to now secular gays having been doing most the groundwork. Christian gays pray and make websites and get strengthen in the Lord like str8 Christians by going to church. In 1967 God gave Catholic gays priests in 1968 God gave protestant gays pastors. In 1969 God gave power to secular gays. Most gay Christian still have no clue what God really is doing as he prepares them to help you the persecutor keep your faith in the coming days when satan’s deception come to full force. What is missing and being held back is the on fire for god gay Christians, The Pentecostal gay Christians. Once God set them free to go forth you will see God moving openly for gays. This is finally about to happen. Gay Pentecostals time has come you will soon see. Here to for you have had total freedom to not have God intervene. Now just a handful of unknown gays that don’t even know each other exists will step forward and operate in their calling. Mountain will move for them. You have not seen the numbers of people that will be healed that are about to be healed. But, als,o you have not seen God directly moving on homophobes giving them warning to make a choice, it will not go easy Jesus has been longsuffering for this time. He has been waiting to go and answer the prayer of those persecuted by Christians like yourself.

The definition of marriage, that being between the union of men and women, has existed in every culture and society since the beginning of humankind.   Even in cultures that had affirmed the overt practice of homosexuality, the definition of marriage was never changed to include same sex couples.

gays4jesus: also in every culture, gays were present and in fact most culture held them as sacred. You condemn all gays based on sacred male temple prostitutes. Fertility prostitution is very specific to a religion. Paul saw a fertility temple on every corner, he actually went inside one that had over 1000 temple prostitutes and in that temple was the statue to the known god. 650 million gays today are not temple prostitutes in a fertility temple. And 99.9% if not all these fertility prostitutes’ customer were str9 males and Paul was specifically addressing Hebrew men that went to them. All those Hebrew men were married to women. There is so much detail about these fertility temples but somehow you get Paul to be talking about ordinary gays. Where is your information that Paul was talking about gays. You won’t produce it will you?

In Jesus’ day Greek was often spoken. Hebrew as well. These languages uses words that do not match up to today’s words like marriage. In Jesus day a spouse of the man of the house, as it were gay or str8 owned the woman through a family to family contract from usually birth. There were plenty of exceptions as deal went broke down, or the wife as it were “got raped” or something so she was not a profit any more. Hebrew has evolved and even Hebrew speaking people would not be able to understand some words. I have talked to experts and did personal research and many Hebrew speaking people use modern English translations and have the same conditioning the Catholic started in the 13th century that the Hebrew word sodomite means gays:
6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean. 6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.

This is the key word in 7 of the 14 (some say 16 two verse do talk about women in addition to the 14 verses) verses people use to say gay is sin. Modern Hebrew forgot this documented ancient meaning. This word did not have meaning 1, meaning 2, meaning 3 and so on in Jesus day or Moses day. The word meant “male temple prostitute” in Bible days.

Knowing Greek and Hebrew means often something that needs lots of background understanding to understand what verses are talking about. The word slave and the word servant are not like we understand it today. The grammar placement of these words is important too. We like to stir anything up to make what we want to be, but ancient Hebrew and Greek it was not how sentences are manipulated. I am trying to put background into learning how this word “marriage” we used today meant back in NT/OT days. There is so much ancient writings this is not guesswork or wishing it is how it was in those days. Your wife was not for romance and sexual pleasure. She was for profit. Christians translated it to mean “sex for pleasure and love” was not allowed. Sex was to multiply period. But it was Christian legal to have concubines up to the 11th century and to have mistresses as well for love and romance. Generally, pagan influence changed Christians into the style we love today. Namely, “nobody tells me who to marry I decide this”.

So when you know when you place in a sentence “My Servant” then in next sentence or two “My Slave” every listener to that would know yo are talking about the person you are legally married to. Once you know this, you suddenly open a vast reservoir of info that shows a number of gay marriages in the Bible.

3816 pais (paheece); perhaps from 3817; a boy (as often beaten with impunity), or (by analogy,) a girl, and (genitive case) a child; specifically, a slave or servant (especially a minister to a king; and by eminence to God): KJV-- child, maid (-en), (man) servant, son, young man.

The Greek word that the Roman centurion uses in this passage to describe the sick man – pais – is the same word used in ancient Greek to refer to a same-gender partner. In that culture, if you were a gay man who wanted a male “spouse,” you achieved this, like your heterosexual counterparts, through a commercial transaction — purchasing someone to serve that purpose. A servant purchased to serve this purpose was often called a pais.
Homophobe must fight against REAL ancient day words to come up with their modern day interpretations. I just put a few things in on this topic that has an incredible amount of documentation of those ancient days. The above describe the common practice of str8 marriages showing gays also married the same way. You never have God condemning that day’s marriage process. Today that way to marry is completely illegal and probably all of today’s Christians would think how you got married in Jesus day is an outrage and of course should be illegal. What’s more it was extremely common to be married by 14 -16 years old and one of the spouses could be a lot older, so there is a double whammy in today’s Christian thinking about what was legal in Jesus day and no hint of God or Jesus condemning it. I am not giving my opnion on rightness or wrongness what I am doing is showing quote “
the definition of marriage was never changed to include same sex couples” is a very unhistorical statement and is not Bible.

We believe that changing the definition of marriage puts our society and nation at great risk, taking us down an untested path and defying God’s design. 

gays4jesus: Gays have been married forever. Gays are not a new thing and they did not just start getting married. The Church did a premeditated DISOWNING OF the gay member of the Body of Christ. History has a ton of stories about gays. Nations in history became at risk when Christians began to rule. The roman empire (I am not giving praises to them, just getting facts straight about the above statement) thrived for many centuries, it was not until Christian began to rule it that the Roman empire crumbled. What is taking us down the untested path to putting us at great risk is joining will all religions for common good and common task. United Religions UR is an example. Rev Moon is a huge example and most Christians are supporting him and not knowing it, many Christian leaders act directly with Moon. Moon has paid off a lot of Christian financial debt too. Lost behind series authors, Paul Crouch, and many well-known Christians chaired Moon’s board for a season. I can go on very long on how modern Church is working hand in hand with satan. I personally toured a Buddhist temple in Hualien Taiwan. Talk about state of the art tech. I was given a personal tour and the monk explain their main mission about joining all religions and he showed many many things backing it up and what religions were involved Christians were very involved. Gays on the other hand were amputated from the Body of Christ in the mind of the Church leaders and since then the Church as a whole has gotten very sick as it is trying to function missing a vital part. God has grafted that part back in and the Church is healing. Soon gay Christians will be established and restored enough to fill their part in the Body of Christ as intended.

Because of these reasons, we urge the people of West Seattle to reject Ref. 71, so that the institution of marriage, family and society may be preserved. 

gays4jesus: Str8 marriage will never go away and it will never need preserving. 90% are str8, how can 10% be an issue? Life will not change for str8 families except many taking out hating 650 million people just because they are gay. Voting against 71 means you are voting against 650 million people and 1 billion 300 million parents who must think their children are going to hell or when they go to church have to hear their beloved pastor condemn their children every time he needs an example of sin which so often seems to have to be using gays as another word for sin. Sibling can double that number easily to a total of ½ the world population directly is affected because you say gay is sin. Why can’t pastors do math? ½ the world’s population is intently affected directly by an anti-gay message. Most are forced to believe gay is sin even gays because how many people take time to study the facts in ancient words and ancient writings and actually history. Today it is a lot easier because most of us have access to just about all knowledge so have little excuse.

Our recommendation is not done in spite or aimed at the oppression of others, but out of love.  Love being that of desiring the highest good for all the men, women, and children in our community, both now and for generations to come.

gays4jesus: God alone can hate the sin and love the sinner, Jesus came because God so loved the sinner that he sent Jesus to pay the price of ALL sins committed by people. Can you die for the gays you say you are loving. You absolutely would not, how can you say you act in love. We have detailed explanation of love in the Bible.

1 Cor 13:1-13 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. (KJV)

The highest good to you would mean, 650 million people fired, children that are gay seeing no hope by people like you that give no explanation how you get gays into the Bible. Being gay, it is so very easy to see we are not gang rapists like you say in Gen. 19, we are not male temple prostitutes like you say in several verses. We do not join fertility ritual orgies like you tell us we are doing. You teach parents to disown their gay children or know only their children are going to hell. The cost t America financially will be tremendous because many of you don’t want the name marriage used for gays so a double legal system is being set up to do exactly the same as marriage costing the Gov’t twice but more in set up processes. Gays more than are a benefit to the community in health care alone. They are often pillars in family crisis. Business owners say gays are their best workers. You do oppress words to justify you are not is not REAL life. You are not doing in spite you are doing in hatred as love is a behavior so is hate. By your acts you show hatred, love does not behavior as you do toward gays.

Once again, please vote to REJECT Ref. 71.

gays4jesus: Vote no and you continue joining in the circle of lies against innocent people. Before voting (of course this specific measure is already done by the time most of you will read this) but take time go to sites that give the other side of the story. Invite Christian gays to speak and give account of their faith in Jesus Christ. Gays are as different as str8s, There is no real life style as with str8s. Every facet of life is represented, every religion, every denomination, every culture, every interests group so don’t lump 650 million gays in to one groups and say gay lifestyle. Lots of stereotypes topics are heaped onto all gays, Hells Angels are str8 shall we say all str8s are represented by the values of the motor cycles gang named Hells Angels? All gays do not support abortion but many str8 support abortion, shall we say all str8s even Christian str8 supports abortion? So, when you get an issue to vote on or decide on remember like str8s gays are individuals with great diversity. If you are Pentecostal, don’t go to Mormon gays and expect to see your basic doctrines in operation. Go to a gay Pentecostal church so you can see mostly no difference in general doctrines. Catholics judge yourselves go to Catholic gays and etc. don’t just say the word gay and so put your worst pet peeves into all gays. The verses are another issue, use a verse back up your usage with FACTS. Gays are not sodomites.

clip_image004 Father John Madigan Rev John Madigan, Holy Rosary Church click name to email
http://www.holyrosaryseattle.org/about/about.htm
gays4jesus: This person is Catholic why should below Pastor Randy Leskovar join with whom plenty of info show Calvary is not exactly bed buddies with the Vatican. But, they put their names together for West Seattle’s churches against gays rights as Pastor Sam Seumae also did.

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Pastor Sam Seumae, The Way Church of God thewaycog@comcast.net
http://thewaycog.com/

gays4jesus: I am not sure who is “Sam” in the pictures, their website does not indicate. This pastor has his name

Pastor Randy Leskovar , Calvary Chapel West Seattle Email: calvaryws@comcast.net
http://www.advancedministry.com/sites/index.cfm?i=1125
gays4jesus: I could not find a picture of this guy although he may have one on classmates.com and to get into his profile you have to be asked how you know him. Randy has been out spoken before so easy to see more about him speaking against gays.

Two people made comments on this ref 71 article by the above 3 pastors/priest
others are making comments each day

October 22, 2009 - 8:17pm

#1 ├člink to comment page

Guest

Ref 71

I agree. I am a believer in God and Jesus Christ. Sadly, I am not a citizen of this country. It is a tough world we live in, but I stand by God on every subject. I will continue to voice my opinion to reject Referendum 71. Thank you for your encouraging words. Not many people are willing to speak out against same sex marriage and same sex domestic partnership.
reply
gays4jesus: Not many?? Hmm if this were true we would have gay marriage decades ago.. Even not a citizen of the USA let alone Washington State and have to speak on a local issue, Just don’t complain when gays are standing up for their rights and traveling to support such cause around the world. It worlds bothways.
October 22, 2009 - 8:41pm
#2 ├člink to comment page
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APPROVE REF 71
I have raised my children like most, if not all, Catholics to show the love and compassion as Christ have for all human kind. My 8 year old child asked, "Daddy why do people hate gays?". Hate is a powerful word we don't our children to use in a very subjective sentence. A question that openned my eyes and pondered, why do they? I may not agree how homosexuals live their lives but I cannot tolerate hate in our family prayers. Ref 71 is not just about a threat to our religion nor a foundation of this country. It is about just and equality for all tax payers of this state. The homosexuals are the tax payers who also supported our childrens schoold districts. They are our teachers, our doctors, our policeman and woman, fire fighters and military offense and defences that protected all of us (in every Christian, non-Christian denomination and NON-CITIZENS like the first person that commented). These are the tax payers of the state that also contibuted in our community. Good or bad, we as children and servants of God need to learn to be humble. As Christ stated those who have not sinned shall cast the first stone. I honestly can't. So I answered, "I don't think people hates gays sweetheart I believe it is misunderstanding and ignorance." I support Ref-71 not because of the homosexuals but also to extend the medical rights and obligations to our heterosexual senior citizens.
reply
gays4jesus: This is the very least to be expected from Christians and I thank this person, though admitting probably to thinking gay is sin this person understands it is not up to them to judge but to love others. This person’s behavior though is not pro-gay as it were is of love because this person recognizes gays are decent folk and are people needing the same rights and this person saw it also represents the elderly’s rights where marriage is not realistic, but rights are.

Tuesday, October 20, 2009

My siblings are gay what can I do?

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My siblings are gay what can I do?

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gays4jesus: A sister’s brother and sister come out to her and want to know how to witness effectively to them.

From: miss****@aol.com [mailto:miss****@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:37 AM
To: stablesministries@gays4jesus.com
Subject: I Need Some Help...

Hello,

gays4jesus: hi back

I stumbled across your site by accident in a very interesting time in my life.

gays4jesus: another word for stumbled is God sent you. . . Praise Jesus

clip_image016[4] While I, personally, am straight, I have come across many gays and lesbians in my life from my best friend coming out to me when we were 13 to my little sister (who is 16 now) coming out to me and my brother just a few short weeks ago.

gays4jesus: Often Christians have to come to grips with the gay issues when they discover someone close to them is gay. It looks like you got a bunch all at once. I guess that means they trust you a lot.

I am Christian and I try to talk to my little sister about my church and Jesus and the wonderful life you can lead when you trust in God but she doesn't really want to hear it.

gays4jesus: Understandable since usually only info many gays have about God and the Bible is gay is sin and you must change to be a Christian.

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This is mainly because of the church and the Bibles views on homosexuality.


gays4jesus: This dates back a little over 700 years ago when a few power Catholic leaders invented the anti-gay doctrine so they could create scandal to purge other leaders from high office that did not have the same ideals. At a very young age you are taught this false doctrine.

Now I must admit, until I came to your site I had never in my life heard anyone claim homosexuality was not a sin or that the Bible spoke positively on it at all (if at all) so I was intrigued and wanted to get some information to share with my sister and my best friend (who is also skeptical about the Christian lifestyle).

gays4jesus: One Assemblies of God pastor’s wife told me once that she did not know there was another side of the story she just thought the one sided anti-gay was it so never thought to research it herself just accepting her pastor husband’s word on it. Today there are tons of site and information on the other side of the story.

The “skeptical about Christian lifestyle” you stated is not clear as to was it because it’s generally condemns gays, or like your average unbeliever just needs to hear the Gospel and what ways you can do this effectively? And yes many positive verses about gays in the Bible. These are hard to find only because homophobes looks for sex not people. The Bible talks a lot about str8s, though plenty of sex talk about them most is not about sex at all and yet it seems pretty easy to grasp str8s are people and have stories other than sex.

I've tried to tell them that God loves everyone and created each and every one of us,

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)

clip_image021[4] but they think it's just me spewing my Jesus stuff in an attempt to get them to church.

gays4jesus: Many Christians do just that spew out their Jesus stuff and they can’t speak to anyone unless it is a verse or a halleluiah or Glory to God phrases. In real life that is not very personal at all. People have concerns and they have their life and their world circles around them. Jesus has to be personal to them and shouting phrases and quoting verses may have quite the opposite effect on someone you want to find Jesus or go fellowship with you in a church.

What can I say to them to convince them that Jesus loves them and is ready to accept them however they come to Him?

gays4jesus: Well know by heart the sinner’s prayer (not to just rattle it off, but in preparation to have someone pray it when it comes time).

clip_image023[4]To accept Jesus pray this prayer:

God be merciful to me a sinner! I believe Christ died on the Cross for me, that God rose him on the 3rd day, and that His Precious Blood will cleanse me from all my sins. Forgive me of my sins and come into my heart as my Lord and my Savior. Help me Lord to do thy will each day. In Jesus name, I pray. Amen

Have some verses handy when the time is right and they have those kinds of questions. I have a list just click the picture “Get Saved”.

Your personal testimony is certainly interesting and one that I will be sharing with them but any scriptures you can provide would be greatly appreciated!

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gays4jesus: When you accept Jesus he starts a personal relationship with you. Like a mother may hold her new born starting a personal relationship when her child is born and her never ending love for her new babies no matter how old they grow to be or what trouble they get in and their joys are her joys.

Testimony is one of the best tools of any religion. Christianity it is especially special because as a Christian we have a personal life with Jesus Christ. We can actually put the Bible down and just tell people what Jesus is doing in your life just like you could tell someone what you are your friends did today or last week or a year ago. Jesus is real.

Thank you for helping shed light on the issues of gays who want to come to God but don't know how. I look forward to hearing from you.

Angelica

gays4jesus: Hope I have been of some help and God bless you through Jesus Christ.

John

Rev Charles Ndaru Invites me to Kenya

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From: Rev Charles Ndaru [mailto:revcharlesndaru@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:27 AM
To: gays4jesus@gays4jesus.com
Cc: gaysforjesus647@gmail.com
Subject: Re Conference

 

Dear  Lastdays  Pastors

Calvary greetings to you,Family and ministry. My names are Pastor  Charles  Ndaru,founder and presiding pastor of Grace  Fellowship  Ministries having its registration here in Nairobi Kenya, East Africa. I believe God is a God of Divine connections, and I believe this is one of them that God has put me and you servant of God in same spirit for his glory. I and our church here inkenya holds several gospel meetings,crusades and open air meetings to reach the people in our Estate and around  the country, and we also hold  church leaders conferences,seminars,rallies and retreats to equip the ministers of the gospel for the work of the ministry.

gays4jesus: Good to hear

I have found a great inspiration to write to you and request you servant of God to visit and preside one of our great events here in our nation Kenya.Am committed to plan a meeting of any kind only if it edifies the Body of Jesus Christ.If you promise to come I promise to mobilise over 500 ministers (both pastors and bishops) of the Gospel come and recieve what God has given you to deliver.

gays4jesus: Happy to come, but my Invite me policy is if I get invited then the invitee takes care of expenses, planes, lodging, food, etc. I am cheap and don’t want anything fancy. So, I expect you won’t be returning my acceptance. I do know God would move and many will be physically healed and a message that will help Christian survive with their faith intact during the coming days. I have an especial hard message for ministers as much is required of them as they will be inundated with new sheep and past standardized sermons won’t due.

Know that God will use you to reach many pastors and Ministers of various churches and denominations in  kenya for the work of the ministry.

gays4jesus: I believe this too. Pastors and ministers are indeed search for answers to difficult questions and realizing time is short what can possibly be done. Jesus requires little and it is not so complicated but very serious and can mean the rise or fall of many.

You have never seen a people who loves to listen to the word of God, these people are thirsting and hungering for God's word.The one who called us is able to do more exceedingly and abuntantly to enable you bring healing in our country.

gays4jesus: God has shown me this hunger, but Christians must participate more than just love to hear the WORD of GOD. It is these people that will bring in the sheep where ministers/pastors will have their hands full trying to figure out what to do and that old preaching method are inadequate.

I have been praying for God to connect me with a minister who is truly his.I believe this person to be you.I'M in prayers hoping to have your positive response.

gays4jesus: Great miracles are coming and also great shocks to the Church. Much of the message from the Church is heaping weights on the shoulders of innocent children of God, this has to come to an end and many church leaders will not give into the move of God in these Last Days. I suspect you are sending a generic letter out and so does not have much meaning accept you are hoping to get whoever may answer. Had you really believed it to be me you would also have known what the gays in gays4jesus means. Gay is not sin and this too is a message to those that still hang onto to the hatred of gays and the belief in the false doctrine against gays. I would hope me being gay would not have to be an issue, because so much needs to be said to ready believers for the coming days. Spending time dealing with this false doctrine against gays is a major part of the Last Days. There are several major false doctrines that Christians and Christian leaders will not give up easily so many will fall away.

Hope to hear from you soon.

gays4jesus: Hope this is soon enough I am also posting my reply to my blog a link to it is at my website http://gays4jesus.com

In Him,

Pastor  Charles   Ndaru

Nairobi Kenya.+254 729  984  863

In Christ Jesus

John

1-206-338-4297

Urges of unknown writer

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gays4jesus: This unknown person wrote me about his urges it to compare to gays.

well if that is the case I guess homosexuals are aliens.
I know my own sins are brought on by being tempted.  When I happen to park the TV on BET on a nasty rap video instead of crusing on through and start getting nasty thoughts, thats when desire is fueled....
When I see a half-naked woman on the cover of Cosmo magazine while waiting in line at the grocery thats when my desire is fueled....

gays4jesus: Talk about the tragedy that the Catholic church mainly and much of Christianity, especially from the 11th century on we live in guilt because if it is sexual we are sinning. What this guy is explaining is what humans do and God created in us because the name of the game is meet someone called a “helpmeet”

Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. (KJV)

5828 `ezer (ay'-zer); from 5826; aid: KJV-- help. 5048 neged (neh'-ghed); from 5046; a front, i.e. part opposite; specifically a counterpart, or mate; usually (adverbial, especially with preposition) over against or before: KJV-- about, (over) against, X aloof, X far (off), X from, over, presence, X other side, sight, X to view.

The form that makes this happen is slangly called “horny”. We can give it more decent names like “I want to get married”, “I want to meet someone”, “I want to go on a date”< “I want romance”, and other phrases that would mean getting together and eventually marrying someone. To assign sin to what is a built in (by God) nature of humans is like stop breathing. The sin we like to refer to is:

Matt 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (KJV)

This is a pretty abused scripture. Marriage in those days this would be breaching a marriage contract for profit between two families (husbands) that were relatives of each other. Lusting would tarnish the contract, as would be like raping. In those days thinking about it would be like raping the other man’s wife which defiles her more than the raper.

Looking on a potential sexual partner has a very specific biochemical action in the brain. Studies in detail on this can be seen in documentaries and read online. Science knows eye sees chemical reaction in the brain occurs, glands operate as designed. Stinky parts smells good now and much more. When you try to control this you create other chemical reactions that is out of sink which can result in harm. I am not intending to detail what happens in your body when you look on a person that makes you horny. Just want to say the Bible is not talking about your built in operations to find a mate. Our control should be, nice but that person is not available and neither am I but wow hot they are so what. Magazines are as evil as you make them to be in your mind. Magazines are a business fact, you can let them rule your life and associate it to the lies about sex from so much conditioning from mainly the Vatican and other higher influential church leaders over centuries or you can think “she’s cute” and finish paying for the food you bought.

To use your hornyness to imply it is a comparison to gays simply wanting to meet a lover is like you applying lust and vile passion to marriage sex.
But its pretty hard to think nasty thoughts when you are in full communion with Christ in prayer...

gays4jesus: thinking about the wonderful physical aspect of love with the one you love is not “nasty” and communion with your spouse with Jesus at an alter together is a wonderfull way to remember Jesus till he returns.

In fact The MCC church was once offered to give communion at a church convention (yes a gay church is part of clergy gatherings of str8 churches) They in fact called people to come up for communion with their spouses (gay or str8) and this astounded the str8 clergy that is was so wonderful an idea to be with your loved one having communion give you together. Your “nasty” is from conditioning not Bible.
Talulah (apparently a female he was writing to), whenever we talk about these types of subjects your comments always go back to a slant that gives me a feeling that its impossible to resist urges....

gays4jesus: it was designed to be resisted, when you get the urge you want water or food you just eat or drink. Well sex is not water or food as such and has perimeters and boundaries and rules of engagements that evolve with time. We can weigh those urges as to how to go about as it were satisfying that hunger. Societies offers guidelines that are acceptable. Usually hang out where you can meet someone in a casual way, church, dance, party, interests groups, etc. Then be friendly in a decent manner hoping to be asked for a date or asking for a date. I am being very simple here because so many lies about as you say it “urges” are causing people much anguish. The line is to be drawn when you begin to go outside the boundaries of your customs. There really is no need to talk about extremes like gang rape or rape or other completely radical departures from the customary processes of dating. In Jesus day there were strict customs, other cultures have different customs, but generally love finds ways and God is not standing next to you with a club. He in fact is there because he loves you and wants you to have joy and happiness.
#1 if you just desire a relationship with someone you are not a homosexual.  I love my father and I have a relationship with him.... but that doesn't mean I have the desire to have sex with him.  A relationship without homosexual sex or sexual desire, is not a homosexual relationship.  If you like hanging out with people of the same sex, that doesn't even mean you are a homosexual.

gays4jesus: this guy is really trying to deal with issues for sure.
#2 Desiring sex with women is sin if you are a woman,

gays4jesus: this statement requires Bible details and explanations of verses used to come up with lesbian is sin. The Bible does not condemn lesbianism at all. (Note: again based on we are not talking about gang rape, rape and other abusive acts, these are issues that have no sexual orientations)

or sin if you are a man, and that woman is not your wife. 

gays4jesus: you base “desiring” to your “urges” and so again you are in the wrong. You personally may have a problem with urges, but otherwise it is a misnomer to related desires to sin. As you state desiring a married woman may actually be no more than a what if game and hey sure she is cute so what, and so what if it get junior excited a little. Again, the lusting after another man’s wife is a much more serious thing.

2 Sam 11:2 And it came to pass in an eveningtide, that David arose from off his bed, and walked upon the roof of the king's house: and from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman was very beautiful to look upon. (KJV)

This sort of thing led to murdering her husband. You can piece together the sort of things that are the lusting God is talking about. God is not talking about your daily whims of sexual interests that would never ever lead to anything other than a passing thought. You are a sexual creature and it is a biochemical thing that is provable and has been proven. It is for the insurance that you will find a mate and love and because it is functioning as designed doesn’t mean you can call it sin.

It can be no plainer than that.  1 Corinthians 6:9 is quite clear that homosexuality is sin.... the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is quite clear on that...

gays4jesus: Here again is the typical homophobic response and not a hint on how you get gang rape to mean gay is sin or how you get a word that means “male temple prostitute” to mean homosexual. Since Pual wrote this word :

1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (KJV)

733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace); from 730 and 2845; a sodomite: KJV-- abuser of (that defileself) with mankind.

There has been 76 documented by Christian writers that use that word for the next 1600 years. Each time that word was use there were two possible explanations given. One nothing was given to indicate a meaning in the entire document as to what sort a person was the “arsenokoites”, the other explanation was “sex out of species”. 1600 years and there is no not even any other documentation on “arsenokoites” yet so many Christian base gay is sin on arsenokoites. In Paul’s day there were 9 Greek words to define gays, Paul chose a word that means the same as the Hebrew counterpart:

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

In 1850 at a USA clergy convention they discussed this verse 1 Cor 6:9 and all agreed as taught no one would be in heaven (they taught it to mean masturbators would not inherit) so they desided to find another group to be the “arsenokoites” and since gays were already condemned with 12 other verses (in which 5 used the word sodomite) they thought no one would care so they started from then on to teach gays won’t inherit. Then in 1946 the first modern version Bible hit the shelve and the two Greek words were removed and homosexual inserted. (note: all modern versions comes from Westcott and Hort’s translation).

and the opening of Romans is quite clear on that.

gays4jesus: Romans 1:18-32 is about str8 adults turning from GOD to gods. God gave them over to go to fertility temples and join in with the ritual sexual orgies conducted to those gods. You have to be str8 first if it were to be condemning gays and you would have to have known God first and then turn from him and this in not what gays do and gays were always gay. And gay behaviors do not match verse 28-32 either they are quite opposite those listed sins. Paul actually went into a fertility temple that had over 1000 temple prostitutes and in that temple was also that status to the unknown god.

I did a TV program from the ruins of the temple of the “mother of the gods” (Cybele) which the religions of Paul’s centered around and was prevalent since the 2nd century BC.
Instead of defending the person who just can't escape urges lets just get to the point.

gays4jesus: got to ask the question if there is no way out of something could it be we got it wrong. If the facts shows 69% of quite provable Christians have sex on the first date, could it be we are not listening to God but instead listening to are teachers without doing any homework to see if your amen should be kept or removed for your teacher.
Nothing causes us to act on temptation.  We have a choice (we are not robots or animals).  A temptation does not become a sin until we encourage it in our mind, or we act upon it.

gays4jesus: Now you compare your “urges” to “temptations”:

temptation 3986 peirasmos (pi-ras-mos'); from 3985; a putting to proof (by experiment [of good], experience [of evil], solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication, adversity: KJV-- temptation, X try.

Urge 1758 enecho (en-ekh'-o); from 1722 and 2192; to hold in or upon, i.e. ensnare; by implication, to keep a grudge: KJV-- entangle with, have a quarrel against, urge.

Temptation is more on the line of being set up to do something and urges comes from within you to do something. Each of them you can manage, but for different reasons. Both have their good and evil side. If you are talking strictly of the evil side of each you should address it not assume if it is an urge it is evil or if it is a temptation it is evil. What you are trying to talk about is gay is sin and so if a gay person feel gay and does something meaning date it is sin. You are hymning and hawing around the bush at your own problems with your own sexuality and so you extend that to as the problem gays have so you think getting control like you do your battle when you see women’s pictures you think gays can work through wanting to be with a same sex partner.
So we are back to my first statement.  Unless homosexuals are some kind of aliens,

gays4jesus: well they might be some sort of aliens to the likes of you because you don’t seem to have the ability to know the sameness they are to str8s and you are applying healthy str8 dating and romancing type behaviors that gays do because in sex gays and str8s are very similar and it the horrid str8 sex act that you relate gays to. You want all gays to be in the field of the evil side of str8 sex when they are just as behaving in healthy sexual (dating/marrying) practices that as it were healthy str8s do. It is your sick perverted thoughts that turn ordinary gay behaviors into being the same as the abusive str8 sex that is all too common.

the methods heterosexuals use to escape sinful thoughts and sinful actions can work in the mind of a homosexual....

gays4jesus: this statement means str8 should stop sex and can and if they do then gays should stop too. What you refer to is behavior modification techniques, which the ex-gay ministries are doing. Ex-gay ministries had their beginnings in the early 70s and up to today do not work, all of the techniques used to change gays or even just to get them to abstain does not work. I have interviewed even the more stubborn ex-gay claiming he was changed only within a few questions showing there has been no change just denial. If you want to stop smoking some ways has good results, but we know smoking is harmful because of the facts that came from decades of research. Where is your research about gays? There are lots of studies and research and more concerning gays and it is always that gay is healthy and not sin. Gays rights movement (is secular and should not be associates with Christian gays) following history’s rights movements in the stages rights movements takes, a great deal education folk and court action to force racists and bigots into treating people with dignity and respect. Things are getting more evil because gay rights are happening, gay rights is a long term effort and any persecuted group stand up and works hard over a very long time to get human rights. Because gays no longer allow blatant condemnation does not make it out of bounds as they follow the same approach that any segment of society follows. Today blacks are not fully equal in a lot of people’s eyes, but hey compared to not that long ago it is amazing. Gays also are progressing to that point. Comparing gays to sex with animals as some Christian groups do, case in point the infamous flap in Seattle as a anti-gay Christian group from Portland came to get a bill passed to take rights away from gays. They wanted gays to be classed as sex with animals including adding on many minority races into that bill not just gays and this flap that had that info was turned over so could not be read as signatures were gathered..

sinful action? 14 to 18 verses (there a couple verses that have applied to lesbians to get up to 18) to say gays thoughts move to sinful actions means you need to explain how you get this idea, it comes from 700 years of conditioning when a new doctrine was invented to specifically purge from power leaders that did not have the same ideals and the influential Catholics. So where is your info about how you got any verse to say gay is sin?
Make sense? (and don't get me wrong I know everyone isn't the same, but there is a way out of sinful thoughts and sinful actions, or else the bible is a fraud when it says \"God won't give us a temptation we cannot handle\")

gays4jesus: Then if God won’t give us temptation that we can’t handle why is there 700 million gays or soon to be according to statics and population)? Why do ex-gay ministries don’t work? Why does God bless gays? Why is gay civil rights now coming state to state for full marriage rights? A ton of questions. And the Bible is not a fraud so what does that mean? Someone is wrong! WHO? This is the question you should be asking yourself. Why do homophobes have to lie, they brought all sorts of false accusations on Jesus.

Matt 26:59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; Matt 26:60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, (KJV)

It took some doing to get enough false witnesses to bring Jesus to Pilot, and also we have lies lies and more lies about about gays comes out of the mouths that are saying God hates gays or gay is sin, or gays needs to be at least abstinent. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sins and the result is as in accepting Jesus we recognize we are sinners and here Jesus died and paid the price which would for us be eternal death in outer darkness where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Instead, we feel joy seeing there is a way out through Jesus Christ by his paying that price on the Cross. Conviction includes a way out, guilt has no way out. Homophobes lay guilt trips on gays and many gays struggle for a very long time because they think God hates them since they are not changing. Gays do not go to ex-gay ministries for fun, they go because they believe God hates them unless they change and be str8 or get help to abstain. This really does lot of harm to many gays because they find they aren’t and can’t change and so God must really hate them or there is no hope for them and the leave Jesus behind. Many gays come to realize gay is not sin and that truth sets them free and they go on in life loving Jesus keeping the faith.

Why does it need to be all so often a crisis in a homophobes life to get them to see gay is not sin? Homophobes often needs something like finding out one of their kids is gay. Almost all homophobe needs a life changing experience, a tragedy, or other major event that disrupts their before they will take the time to really see if gay is sin or not. Pastors are telling parents their kid is going to hell because their kid is gay. What a shame that this is how a lot of parent accepts their gay kids. It does not have to be this way; true deliverance can be seen in groups like PFLAG where you have long-term facts about homophobes that was delivered of that false belief.