Obedience is to Believe God

Hi John  from ronv11
So You think the seven different versions of 1Corinthians 6:9 are "satan counterfeits" The seven (7) different versions specifically states that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. I can only go by what I read in the bible, nothing else. Even in the King James Bible 1 Corinthians 7:2 states

Gays4jesus: You still are not listening I said all modern versions come from the corrupt manuscripts of Westcott and Hort. I wish you would read what I wrote you. Now if you are going to just read a verse from any Bible and just assume it is as you understand the words you read then you certainly are not reading the Bible. The Bible was written originally in the that 1st hundred years after Jesus Rose. In the 2^nd century two sets of manuscripts were copied in the Latin Vulgate. One set was the corrupt version the other was direct from the original. The corrupt version was then lost/hidden or otherwise not used until the 15^th century when it was found and was made the official Catholic Bible source. The Received Text as it is called, was in constant use until King James authorized the KJV and because the printing press was now available became cheap and accessible for everyone to buy. This helped in cause the other good Bible of the day to fade out of use. Today you don’t find them on books shelves unless you hunt for collectors or places that may sell them.

In the 1880s Westcortt and Hort took the corrupt version and translated into a strange Greek rendering then translated it to English and their influence (Westcott being on the board to revise the Bible) got their entire version to be the Official Bible of the Church of England.

Now Westcott and Hort were not just Bible translators they also (especially Westcott) into the occult and started the Ghost Club. Membership in this club has become a mandatory requirement for anyone wanting to be in the elite of the coming one world government (antichrist’s kingdom). Modern version have 50,000 to 80,000 corruptions. These are not simple corruptions, but are specific mainly taking Christ out of Jesus. Set side by side with the KJV you will quickly see that the KJV seems an over kill on giving Jesus the Glory and being the Son of God and the Christ. It also goes to extremes on emphasizing Jesus love for us and his promises to us. Modern version have enough of it to deceive most Christians. Modern version is a major deception satan is using which would be useless if Israel was not a nation yet. Modern version can easily save people, but only after Israel became a nation was it possible for satan to begin adding other great deceptions. As we draw close to the tribulation deceptions will begin to convince many Christian to doubt the Bible. When they begin to look at their modern version it is very compatible with satans deceptions that will ultimately confirm that man over there is Jesus after all.

However, any version will do in studying the Bible since study should demand search original meanings. So in spite of the corrupt Bible you have you still can search and find the ancient Hebrew words and the ancient Greek words. It is important to use the ancient word meaning. If a modern Hebrew speaker went to the 1^st century they would be confused with the many words that has evolved in the past 2000 years. That is why the Bible was written 2000 years ago instead of today. In Jesus’ day was the most perfect time to get God’s message in writing for the New Testament and likewise the Old Testament centuries earlier. For you to say you just read 7 different versions that has a verse that may have the same word in your case “homosexual” does not make it the word that Paul wrote down 2000 years ago. Catamite and sodomite are not Greek words for gays. Modern versions often don’t even use these two words. Many modern version give one Greek word 2 unrelated meanings. They say homosexuals then say shrine prostitutes. The Greek word says as it were “shrine prostitutes” the word homosexual is just an addition the translator put in not from the Greek manuscript.

Again Paul saw fertility temples everywhere he turned in the place he wrote the words that today are used to condemn gays. Missing from you is the historic gays Paul saw that he was condemning according to you. You can search all you want and you will not find that Paul was talking about the local gays. To talk about the local gays Paul would have the historical fact we can find that he saw gays. The FACT is he saw fertility temples.

What you read already tells me that is your total source. Now tell me about your pastor’s sermons. How does he teach you? Does he read a verse then tell you what he think it means? Does he give you tons of sources to back up what he thinks it is saying. Does he show you original Greek. Why do you accept his outside the Bible research that teaches you what ancient meaning meant. But comes to gays all you do is tell me your read it in 7 versions.

The scariest part here is you have no clue about modern versions and so will soon see that man over there must Be Jesus after all. Tell me is it easy for you to know a counterfeit $20 bill? We have a brown marker at work, we draw a line on a bill, if that line changes it is a counterfeit bill. We also have something like a black light to hold a driver’s license over to see if it is a counterfeit license. Tell me how will you know that man over there is not Jesus if you do not know how to reveal the counterfeit in him? Today most church are already supporting anti-christ organization. I toured a Buddhist temple that was the state of the art a push of a button can make 8,000 more seats in the sanctuary area. The monk took me personally to explain their mission. They were working to join every religion for common prayer and good deeds throughout the world. Christianity was part of their efforts. They had headquarters in many major cities in the world. It was amazing how God was revealing to me a specific organization fulfilling prophecy about getting a one world religion. There are at least 5 major such other organizations doing the same things. The effort for a one world religion is well established, yet I am sure you do not have an idea what is going on after all you read it in 7 versions right?

Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Gays4jesus: King David and son Solomon had many hundreds of wives, all the patriarch also had many wives. The 1^st 1000 years of Christianity it was Christian legal to have concubines this was not made illegal till the 11^th century. Marriage today is base in fertility religion. There is no resemblance to today’s marriage and Jesus day marriages. Most marriages in Jesus day were for family profit. Meaning how does each family of each spouse make the most out of arranging the marriage. You just did not meet your spouse at Sunday school or a dance and a school days sweet heart. Today 60% of marriage end in divorce. It is also easy to paste a verse for instance what did the apostles says?

10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

I would also suggest to you don’t fornicate, but don’t tell a gay couple like myself who has been with his partner for 22 years to avoid fornication. You accusations are disgustingly showing your lack of understanding of the gay community. You must think all gays are in a free fall orgy together. Real life shows str8 are the kings and queens of sexual immorality so clean your own house before you go to another’s house to clean.

You call me ( and others that don't agree with you) "a typical homophobe" The reason you stated I am a homophobe is
" I call you a homophone ( you misspelled the word, homophobe or thats a new word homophone) because in your 3 messages you have yet to explain how you get gays in the bible"
As I told you the dictionary ( dictionary .com ) defines a homophobe as :
ho·mo·phobe
[hoh-muh-fohb] Show IPA
--noun
a person who fears or hates homosexuals  and homosexuality.
I do not fear or hate homosexuals. I do not have any bad feelings for gay people. It looks like it is easy for you to label others, that do not agree with you, but it is wrong! I would hope you know as a minister that labeling people is just wrong! You owe me an apology.

Gays4jesus: You do fear and do hate gays because you won’t explain how you get gays in the Bible. Just saying you read it tells me you don’t know what you are reading and flat out won’t spend a minute to find the ancient meanings of the Bible words so you would be able to show me how you got gays into a Bible word.

Nothing to do with disagreeing with you. Keep in mind I have been preaching on TV since 1985, before that I ran a multi-line BBS thing started my website. I been around, you just don’t care about what I know so you simple flat out reject what I say then you paste a verse and think you proved I was on thin ice like you are some expert on Bible words. You have a lot of fear because tons of info is available about gays. http://www.gaychristian101.com/Romans-1.html is a very good site to learn a lot about ancient time concerning the Bible and gays. I bet you have not gone to other links I gave you and you won’t go top this link. If you gave me a link and I did not go to it I would be still in 100% compliance with going to any link you gave me because I have gone to 1000s of similar links against gays. I have talk at length with 1000s maybe 10s of 1000s of homophobes from all countries and most major well know ministers. At least 1 million homophobes have expressed something to me since 1974. So I honestly can say I been to any link you can give me. I know with no reservations you are a homophobe. Tell me why you pastes a dictionary’s definition but you won’t give me the definition of Bible words you think means gay. Homophobes is yes the fear of gays, and what a lot of fear you have by not showing me how you get gays into the Bible.
If you noticed I have refrained from calling you names. I find it surprising that you have used words in your emails to me such as "stupidity" "stupid" and " "homophobe"
I think this speaks to your ideas, you label 7 different bible versions satan counterfeits and then resort to name calling. You do all of this to justify your own agenda.

Gays4jesus: homophobe is not name calling. Name calling to telling a saved person to get saved. You tell gays they are fornicators. Just because so far you don’t do like so many other is because I have maybe been too easy on you. Normally homophobes soon revert to horrible graphic sex acts depictions. Your statements says gays are going to hell with no hope in God. I say this about your statements because you expect gays to stop or change to str8. That is like telling you to stop being str8 and start gay sex. You just aren’t. Of course a very common thing about those that very strongly condemn gays they often are gays themselves. So are you a gay in the closet fighting God about your orientation?

I did not make up Westcott and Hort they are real people and you can get About 1,130,000 results (0.16 seconds) in a Google search on them. Is this what you call non-homophobe behavior when a gay tells you, you are reading counterfeit Bibles and gives you the names of the counterfeiters? Sounds pretty homophobic to me. You need to reject everything a gay says no matter how true it is.
I tell you all of this because I feel what you are doing is wrong. I can see you are an intelligent person, and unless you are fooling me, I think you care about people. How great it must be to travel the world and see the things you have seen. I don't know when the end time will come, but i can tell you todays world that I live in seem a mess, wars, false teaching, perversions, storms, new deadly viruses, sickness, lies and liars abound

Gays4jesus: Not interested in how you feel about me, I am interested in that you begin to realize you don’t get a free ride to Heaven. You must KEEP your faith till the end. 1260 days are set in stone to shake out of you every false doctrine, customs, traditions, and more. Huge numbers will turn from God. You are not wearing your wedding gown and it will take 1260 days for you to finally fit into it and so ne ready for the Rapture. 3 billion plus will die in your sight and you might be one of them which would be great if you still kept you faith. This time is about to pounce on the Church and most have no clue so it acts as a wake up call will you be caught sleeping just because a gay told you this?
I am no better, i too am a sinner, but I do have hope, the bible tells me that if I repent of my sins and believe in Jesus I will be saved.

Gays4jesus: Again, the repent I completely think you don’t know what it means. It like you are saying Jesus worked in vain. Sorry, But Jesus’ work on the Cross should have more meaning to your than to make you need to tell me if the Bible tells you to repent, frustrating it would be so nice to hear someone really loving Jesus than putting so much into works you can’t accomplish. If you imply to me I have not repented then all the more proof you are such a homophobe thinking only evidence about a gays salvation is them turning str8.
I have done both, I hope you and your readers do the same

Gays4jesus: Place you hope in Jesus not others, others will fail you and yet they are as saved as you are. Race for the finish line. It is you and Jesus. Not you me and Jesus or you your spouse and Jesus or you and others and Jesus (though we minister to them so the Holy Spirit can draw them to Christ of help them grow in Christ) Your job is you. Jesus died for you. Jesus’ hope is you. Believe he is the Son of God till the end is OBEDIANCE to God. Obedience is not the law of God or man but to believe God.
Ron

Sent to: gays4jesus

Romv11 YouTube comment 1Cor. 6:9

Romv11 YouTube comment

This is not right its a sign of the end times. How someone can have their head screwed on so wrong is beyond me. Most people do not hate gays, but it is sin.Being gay You are using your bodys in an unnatural way.

See all this persons comment by clicking me below

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Gay Pentecostal Faith Healing Ministries

July 10, 2008 09:52 AM |

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romv11 made several comment on my video above which I responded to earlier. I wanted romv11 to explain how romv11 got gays into the Bible. romv11 does this below:

ronv11

Re: you are a typical homophobe ......more Hi John I am going to need some time to respond to all you wrote .  interesting how you start out your videos You start out saying....."gay is not sin" This is what i think every time I hear that If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousnes. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. God help save pity and defend us Ron ( more cut and paste) Sent to: gays4jesus

gays4jesus: Yes, at the start of all my TV from the first one to now I say “gay is not sin”. I have been doing this since my 1^st program in 1985. This is because GAY IS NOT SIN PERIOD. Saying “gay is not sin” is not saying gays have no sin. Often homophobe believe because gay might say gay is not sin that to them means they are saying gays do not sin.

Killing someone is sin, but because you never killed anyone does not you sin. I ask you why are you using 1 John 1:8 or 1 John 1:10 is not a way for you to defend you claim that gay is sin. The issue is not that gays are sinners just like all str8s, the issue is are any of the verses you use talking about gays and that is a resounding NO!

	From	Subject	Date
	ronv11	So again explain how you get gays in the Bible Hi John you wrote " I would be very happy to go over verse by verse anything you think says gay is sin." can you please explain these 7 different versions of 1Corinthians 6 : 9 it seems you are on thin ice, in fact all the ice is gone, and you need to be saved . God help us all ( time is short repent while you can) Ron gays4jesus: Today there are maybe more than 100 versions. This issue is not about gays BUT ABOUT Bible versions, (all modern versions flat out are satan counterfeits. This different topic can be discussed if you like, but a simple study of Westcott and Hort can give you some basics. Thin ice? I want you to explain how arsenokoites means gays. FACT this word was used 76 times in a period from Paul to the 15th century give or take a few years depending on your sources. By Christian writers it was used 56 times up to around 400-500 AD. This is not guessing and the full writing are available to read. No hint to gays were in Christian writings. Paul’s word though he modified it a little still is based on the Hebrew word qadesh. kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV—sodomite When Paul wrote Romans he did so in the site of the Temple of Aphrodite. I was there a month ago in ancient Corinth and I did hike up the Acrocorinth hill to its top where that temple is located. Many sources say it had over 1000 temple prostitutes. Ancient Corinth had a huge temple of Apollo that could be seen anywhere in the city. I did a TV program from that temple too. All Paul could see as he wrote Romans from Corinth were fertility temples. Athens was the same story. I even preached from the spot Paul did from the statue of the unknown god. The Acropolis was about a 10 minute walk and I had it in my background as I did my program. Paul saw fertility temples everywhere when he wrote. Again I beg you tell me how he got gays from those temples? You can research those times and find gays, there were at least 9 Greek words for gays, Paul use the word for male temple prostitute. Even many modern version acknowledge this, but usually add a word that was not in the Bible. I 1850 at a USA clergy convention they discussed 1 Cor 6:9 and at that time it was taught masterbators would not inherit, they agreed heaven would be empty so who can they insert to take that place and gays were already being condemned for some 600 years so who would care. That is when 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10 was added to the gay is sin false doctrine. 1. New KIng James Version gays4jesus: (Very very corrupt and is not from the KJV) Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 2. New Living Translation Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 3. New International Version Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 4. English Standard Version Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality 5. New American Standard Bible Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 6. Young's Literal Translation have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites, ( sexual intercourse involving anal or oral copulation.) 7. Textus Receptus (Greek) ἢ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι ἄδικοι βασιλείαν θεοῦ οὐ κληρονομήσουσιν μὴ πλανᾶσθε οὔτε πόρνοι οὔτε εἰδωλολάτραι οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖτα (google translate ) oidate the essential injustice that kingdom of God lest my klironomήsousin deceived neither fornicators, nor adulterers, nor eidololάtrai not soft homosexual Sent to: gays4jesus

gays4jesus: 733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace); from 730 and 2845; a sodomite: KJV-- abuser of (that defileself) with mankind.

I tend to prefer Strongs, generally widely accepted by Assemblies of God, though in the past couple of decades they have been turn to the NIV which is probably the most corrupt version. http://gays4jesus.com/HebrewGrammer.html is a link to show you the breakdown of the Hebrew and Greek on the verses used against gays. At least look at it. So many homophobes just reject anything if a gay person sent it , said it or referred to it. Homophobe only present studies done by other homophobes.

How can you even remotely be able to explain a verse if you are using Bible with 50,000 to 80,000 corruptions depending on the modern version you use. Westcott and Hort were not just Bible translators that got their entire translation to be the Official Church of England’s Bible (15^th century this corrupt version became the Catholics official Bible) Those insisting to use satan counterfeit Bibles should at least use the verse to search out the original Hebrew/Greek and not rely on modern dictionaries. As for Google it depends on your key word search and what of the 10s of 1000s of pages you select to use. Google I love because you can get to originals in anything. The Bible tells us in the endtimes we will have access to about all knowledge which we do, depends again on keyword searching. Bias is bias, but research has no limits except what the researcher sets. Knowledge and truth require seeking. You don’t get it with just a few minutes on Google.

http://gays4jesus.com/Books.htm has some books by Sylvia Pennington. I had her on my TV program a few times back in the 80s. She was the first to have best sellers on the gay issues of that day. She work in maybe the most well know ex-gay ministry ad she is an Assemblies of God woman. This was when you could count modern versions more easily. She actually put in her book most of the 39 or so versions for 1 Cor 6:9 in which none agreed to the verses meaning. Today there are who knows how many modern versions, but all coming from the same source “Westcott and Hort”.

600 of the 700 years since the creation of the anti-gay doctrine 1 Cor 6:9 was not in the doctrine. The 12^th century was time that so many changes came to the Church not only the anti-gay doctrine but how we get married today. Marriage as we know it is direct from pagan marriage custom base in their fertility gods. So many pagan became Christians then these custom came over to Christianity and evolved into what is assume a Christians heritage.

The actual meaning of 1 Cor 6:9 is catamite and sodomite which means expensive call boy or young man meaning not street prostitute, but a person that you needed to go through channel to hire and they would in public appear to be lovers of the wealthy clients. This was a well-known status symbols of wealthy Corinthian men.

1 Cor 6:9 has had so many facelifts of the years and have been taught so many ways. In King James day (he is a well known transvestite and now known was gay) the verse meant “weak and spineless”. Other times one was a boy the other a ped. For some time in the USA it was masturbators hence the change to be taught gays won’t inherit. In 1946 arsenokoites and malakos were removed and a non Bible word homosexual inserted. There is a word that is almost pronounce the same as arsenokoites but spelled defiantly and does not have the same meaning but that would could mean gays, but it was not used by Paul.

Are you getting the idea of what I mean when I say explain how you get gays into the Bible? If I can spend this much writing and give you barely the tip of the iceberg of information, why can’t you and other homophobes present why they say gay is sin? I know you can paste a verse in like I said, but again all you do is say “can you please explain these 7 different versions of 1Corinthians 6 : 9 it seems you are on thin ice, in fact all the ice is gone” . Why can’t you explain word meaning and real gays in Jesus or Paul’s day. Here is a site that goes into deep detail about real gays in Jesus day http://www.well.com/user/aquarius/thesis.htm

Now since you have actually came back to me thinking you can paste some verses as though you are such the knowledgeable person can you again come back with something Like how I am going the extra mile with you showing gay is not sin. If you so believe you ought to be able to show mean ancient material in a little more detail than a modern version pasting of a verse.

Maybe the worst thing you said was saying I need to accept Jesus and repent. You concept of repenting is be str8, repentance is a subject that is so abused and misused to heap guilt on the innocent that the topic of repenting as a discussion point needs to be a separate issue as am quite passionate on the topic and the misuse of the word repent.

Concerning my salvation I had already told you much about my walk with Jesus. You said “, and you need to be saved .” I have some of my testimony online http://gays4jesus.com/Testimony.htm The horrors of homophobes is they so blatantly reject testimonies of gays. I am 65 been a Pentecostal Christian since Jan. 1974, been on TV since 1985 don’t you think I might have a walk with Jesus to talk about? I have had 3 major instant miraculous physical healings as well, beside lots of minor healing and 1000s of specifically answered prayers in the detail prayed for. I have nightly vision dreams and Jesus talks with me and much more. But do you care. Homophobes say it is satan not God can you image (of course you can that is what you think too) What do you suppose God thinks when you tell someone they are not saved and they are? Read my challenge http://gays4jesus.com/challenge.htm get your church to invite me let’s check it out is God with me or not. I am willing to stand up for my faith are you willing to stand up for your homophobic belief? Inviting me to your church http://gays4jesus.com/InviteMe2.htm is the process.

Now try to be decent and really give me some real info to your homophobic belief. thanks