Tuesday, November 17, 2009

Terrell Mims sent you a message on Facebook...

Please you took time to write back take time to read what I write.


Terrell Mims

Terrell sent you a message.
Hi John,
First, I want you to know that the whole reason I sent you a message was because OTHER members of the group questioned your motives. I read your post and have no issue with you.

gays4jesus: Thank you for explaining why you sent me the message, however, you certainly could have been a little better at your wording. It really is a no brainer to know almost guaranteed a ministry like Perry’s is well established in Red State beliefs. Probably I hold more Red State beliefs than blue states beliefs Biblewise. However, far too many Christians as with the last 2000 years have been very wrong on issues that hurt others. It should not have to be that Terrell Mims is forced to believe what has come to be called bigotry by many. I am sorry if in my message to you I may come off sounding quite offensive. My motive is far from against you, it is to get you to think. You could have also just ask them to ask me if they questioned my motives. But hey, you and they are wrapped up in deep conditioning concerning gays so it is very unlikely that a gay person would be given any consideration over people that could read what I posted and what I posted is actually decent and will help.
Now, what I do have issue is with the whole "YOU" thing. I don't have an issue with you personally. I don't know you.

gays4jesus: and so in lies the issue you have. You don’t know me so instead of striking up a decent conversation you came on the attack with: “lying, stealing, hate, lust, homosexuality, murder” Pretty insulting I think, though being a gay person, I know it is conditioning that make otherwise decent folk speak as though gays are first just in a list of sins instead of people. If you got to know me you would know me as a man of God. I backup what I say not to boast but as a fact. 35 years in the Assemblies of God ½ that time they did not know I was gay, though I went to church with my lover in the AOGs during that time. I spent a lot of time in Asian communities too. Long story short at every turn they see God in me and tell me so. I can go into great detail about how Christians treat me when they do not know I am gay and when they do know I am gay. It would be funny if it weren’t so hypocritical. How can I be so of God to Christians that see me every day, but of satan when all they see is gay in my screen name? So I don’t blame you for 1st thinking of me as a list of sins instead of a person that entered 2 comments that were really not out of line. Your message to me was still first “gay is sin” then tell me I need to behave myself.
Yes, fornication between straight adults is a sin because EVERY sexual act outside of marriage between man and a woman is a sin.

gays4jesus: So how much fact have you put into this statement? Again not wanting to boast, but I do have quite a knowledge base on Christian marriage over the last 2000 years and we of course know the Bible’s marriages is not even close to today’s style marriage. So if you would like we could discuss FACTS in the Bible and in History about real marriages. Today’s marriages are direct from fertility pagan marriages from around the 12th century. Around the 11th century it was Christian legal to own concubines. Marriage in the Garden was between siblings. Salomon had 100s of wives and concubines and all the patriarchs had many and also sex with their slaves was common, none of the above was condemned. What marriage do you refer to modern day or Bible day? Being a part of Perry Stone’s ministry, I hope you would know a little about marriage. Your statement implies gays can’t marry because you state man and woman. But real GREEK and HEBREW had gay marriages. If you are not an expert then please respect those that are. There are the Greek words Jesus used that says in our modern English a married gay couple. There are verses that 100% cannot be talking about str8 men because of the impossibility in Paul’s day for this to be done according to the verse used and so what way it can be a correct verse of something that could happen would be it talking about gays. Also studies into 10s of 1000s of ancient documents proves real gays in the day of Jesus and Jesus with his own mouth stated gay was not sin if made into its modern day meaning. I expect what I am saying you will reject because you can’t accept gay is not sin, you have to believe the 700 yr old antigay doctrine that was invented to purge leaders from power that did not have the same ideal as the in crowd (Catholic leaders). Marriage is a complex thing and there is a lot of history and Bible on it. I am not making this up. Nearly all this info is from str8 Christian researches. Lots from gays do their homework. God is doing mighty things in the gay Christian community do you even know it exist? I can go on for ever my weakness is to say as much as I can probably loosing you in the process, I just want you to hear there is real FACTs and they aren’t going to go away. What’s more these last days just is not going to pass without a major upheaval in what the churches doctrine concerning gays are. FORNICATION is completely a cop out when using it to try to make gay sin. Once again 69% of single str8 Christians have sex on their 1st date. Not a made up number.

I put that list in because I am not a gay-basher. I love all people, but I must tell the truth. Homosexuality is out of the natural order of God. God made man and woman.

gays4jesus: This is where it is all about. People like you just think stating something like “Homosexuality is out of the natural order of God” means it is and nothing more needs to be said. 650 million gays today is a pretty large number, Please don’t try to dispute this number, you are not gay and you have no interest to check numbers of gays in the world, But I am gay and I do have the background to make a statement 650 million gays. Now in history there weren’t less gays percentagewise. History tells you there were always around the same percentage. In the USA there are 3 gay libraries that have over a million gay books one had 4 million books. This covers a lot of ground. The Vatican has tons of books concerning gays and it is rare anyone gets to see any of them. Regular libraries got tons of book on gays (meaning history and every aspect) I am telling you this to show you that gays is quite in the natural order of things. Because you are str8 and you don’t personally like it does not erase facts. The Garden is not a playground either. God said there that there is a rule that you do not leave parents except to get married. Today almost nobody leaves parents to marry; they leave for school and careers and to have fun. Tell me how many gays have you interview so you can figure out natural order of things? Being gay I have the privilege to know about everything possible about str8s, Str8 do love to talk about anything and everything, gays have the upper hand they know YOU upside down and backwards. Gays also know gays. About the easiest way to explain gays is if you know yourself then you know gays. I’ve talked to over 800,000 homophobes. Do you think I know everything possible about homophobe’s concepts about gays? You could not even possibly have secret information in the Bible that has not been so thoroughly investigated concerning gays. The verse with RIB in it uses a Hebrew word for CELL from that RIB, in the Bible is another Hebrew word for RIB and it would mean bone in Adam’s case, but that word was not used, the word for CELL was used. So the joke that stems from Adam and Eve actually is proof gay is not sin because Steve was in the DNA. Again, you need to be motivated to know this stuff, but you are conditioned gay is sin so to you the English word rib is enough. Note: CELL translation came from a Hebrew definition scholar on TBN for at least a decade or more as their regular backup on Hebrew language in the Bible. The Hebrew word in strong’s talks about a chamber inside that hold stuff. I told you before 14 verses are used by Christians to say gay is sin, I was hoping this would mean to you that if there is only 14 verses and someone told you that, that it would not means you can give one of those 14 verses to say gay is sin. It should mean to you that if yiou use one of those verses you would back it up with facts about the Hebrew words and related Garden events and in history, how it was taught. But you do like all those that say gay is sin and my plea goes unheard that you explain it. Your are condemning 650 million people shouldn’t that encourage you to study after all if you are right they all go to hell so why would you want to show you are right?

The Bible says God does not change and he said "Man should not lie with man as with a woman. It is an abomination.

gays4jesus: every instance of the Bible words for abomination deal with direct worship to other gods. English translators as you can read in the translation info often do not bring over to England the Hebrew meaning. The word man is such a word in Hebrew that has specific meaning depending on the word chosen. In Leviticus the word man means “practicing str8 man”, this is not a guess or a wish. There is 13 possible ways to translate that verse.

1. "And you shall not lie with a man of lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man of those lying with woman..." (p)

3. "And you shall not lie with a man who has lyings with woman..." (g,p)

4. "And you, of those lying with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (p)

5. "And you, of lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

6. "And you, having lyings with woman, shall not lie with a man..." (g)

7. "And you shall not lie with a man (as you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

1. "And you shall not lie with a man (like you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

2. "And you shall not lie with a man (while you have) lyings with woman..." (g)

8. "And you shall not lie in beds of woman with a man..." (g)

9. "And you shall not lie lyings of woman with a man..." (g)

10. "And you shall not lie with a man as a woman lies..." (g)

11. "And you shall not lie with a man as (one) lies with woman..." (g)

12. "And you shall not lie with a man as (you) lie with woman..." (g)

13. "And you shall not lie with a man as with woman..." (g)

In each translation, the manner in which the noun, mishk'vey, is interpreted is denoted by (g) for gerund, and (p) for participle.

3 of them could actually be translated simply a man, however that would affect the sentence grammar so severely it no longer could be read. The other 10 correct possible ways say a man that has slept with a woman. So far we have a str8 man enjoying sex with women and something about worshipping other gods. Womankind is not a wife the Hebrew starts in its definition that the woman is an adulterous woman, she is a sexually immoral woman to start with, and adultery connection is “God is a jealous God” so going after other gods is not God’s cup of tea. Now we go to Moses’ day and we do in fact find the historical record show Hebrew men went to fertility temples along the way to the Promised Land and had sex with their male temple prostitutes.

Lev 18:22

"And male not you-lie-with lyings-with woman, detestable it-is."

So, it could be read as any of the following,

· "And you shall not lie with man lyings-with woman, it is detestable."

· "And you shall not lie with man, you who has lyings with woman..."

· "And you shall not lie with man, you who lies with woman..."

· "And you shall not lie with man who has lyings with woman..."

· "And you shall not lie with man who lies with woman..."

Hebrew/Grammar This link is the complete article on Leviticus and other verses. That article details the grammar and meaning. It is rare that a homophobe will go to any link I give so I expect that you are so happy with your belief about Leviticus that you will also not click this link.

" However, every sin (lying, stealing, blasphemy, hate) will send us to Hell and only be repenting (turning from and forsaking) sin and turning to Jesus we will be saved.

gays4jesus: at least you removed homosexual from that list this time. However, like I said I have been in the Assemblies of God since 1974 and for half that time I never missed a service or a workshop or a guest speaker. I sat in many upper level leader teachings and for 1 year I attended a home Bible study with a group of 20 -25 Pentecostal pastors. I had led one of their sons to Jesus and so that father invited me to join them. These pastors normally would be homophobes, but because I led one of their sons to Christ I became part of them for a year and that entire time they never hinted anything about sin issues of the homophobic false doctrine against gays, instead they fellowshipped together teaching the word and operating in spiritual gift in the Assemblies of God manner so my point I am well versed in sin doctrines and repentance doctrine. If you like we can talk about sin and repentance. But being gay and practicing it like being str8 and practicing is not a sin and it is a completely different topic and issue. The gay issue has mainly 14 verses 12 dating back 700 years when it became a doctrine. There are a couple more verses that some say pertain to lesbians, but as even in those 14 verses several are never used or known about by homophobe. This really limits and make easy the research concerning gays to just a few verses. One word:

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.

This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin. So techniquely you can say it is just one verse. So you are left with gang rape (Gen 19) sodomites “male temple prostitutes” (7 of the 14) and str8 adults turned from GOD to gods (rom 1:18-32) so it should be easy to get explanation of how you get gays into a verse. (Jude just talks about sexual immorality not saying what kind and it is a no brainer that was going on in Sodom). Often the homophobes I talk with deter from the topic of gays and get side tracked into talking about common sin that knows no orientation and is not related to be in the topic about gays. Topic about gays is the 14 verses and until it is shown it talks about gays you cannot add general sin classes to make gay seem even worse.
You said you saw miracles and answered prayer. AWESOME!  Remember, Jesus said "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name and done miracles and I will tell them depart from me you worker of iniquity (a flagrant lifestyle of sin) I never knew you.

gays4jesus: I did not just see I had personally instant dramatic physical healing and I got it when I raised my arms to Heaven and ask Jesus to heal me in his name. One of those time I saw the Holy Spirit pour from the North over a mountain range (1000 ft tall so actually the local hills)when the Holy Spirit got directly east of me He pour down to the Earth and when He got to my head level I was instantly flooded with the Love of God and healing, I was in desperate bout of severe food poisoning with no doctor within an hour’s drive. Try to think I have a 36 year walk with Jesus and one thing you can’t explain is the things that happen by the Lord in my life, All you can do is try to make it satan and trash me and other gays by insinuating Jesus never knew us. You don’t have much choice because you can’t accept that Jesus would be with gays like he is with you and so all you can do is say gays can’t be saved. Homophobe loves to evoke Roman’s 1:28-32 as you are doing in this message by saying (a flagrant lifestyle of sin) all you have to make you say that is simple they are gay so that is the only thing you have to says (a flagrant lifestyle of sin) like str8s there is no str8 lifestyle. What you mean when you say lifestyle is male to male sex because a lifestyle is not sex it is how one lives and what things they do. You might like country western dancing so you would go often to such to dance and join in country events many Christians love country it is a life style which also includes Jesus first. You don’t say to a str8 person because you have sex with opposite sex it is your lifestyle. That would mean your day is only surrounded be having and finding sex with the opposite sex well maybe this is you I certain had an ear full of str8 that finding sex is their life’s goal it seems. Gays are like str8s there are millions of life styles. It is a homophobic pattern to lump gays into a word lifestyles. Romans 1:28-32 lists sins so this makes it easy when comparing to real gays I n the world today and throughout the past. Gays in real life are about as opposite as you can get to verses 28-32. It is a known fact if gays were fired from the health care system it would collapse, this was learned when an attempt to pass such a law in Washington state. Yes many str8 are good folk but they could not handle many fields with out gays co-workers, there just would not be enough to fill their shoes. In families gays are the pillars in family crisis, employers often say gays are their best workers. I can go on and on about gays. I have connection around the world to the fact about what real gays do and they do not do (a flagrant lifestyle of sin). Want sexual immorality str8s remain in complete control of the title being kings and queens of sexual immorality. Evil doers again str8 hold all records being the worst. How do you arrive at gays being (a flagrant lifestyle of sin) ? All you have is one fact “there gay” and that is all you got. Other facts about sex sins is str8s have 97% of the cases when it should be 90% . Tell me is it a pleasure to heap nasty sayings onto innocent people. I am always very very happy to hear facts. I have pleaded with you to explain how you get gay into the Bible. I have shown you info I have and I got tons more. If you say my info is wrong then show me your FACTS. We can go back and forth on this never convince either of us, but I have a ace up my sleeve. I have a Challenge clicking this link details something that would show gay is not sin right in front of your face. But hey anything a gay person says you would mock right? If it is something that might make you change your mind about gays you would reject it with out searching it out. Truth is fine for any topic but gays right? You will never spend an extra second on gays except to tell them insultingly they are evil.
I will not block you because of your name. I will block you anyone if they promote a sinful lifestyle on the page. I have done it before.

gays4jesus: This is really a horrible statement by you because you set in your assumption because there is the word gay in my name that that means I might promote a sinful lifestyle. Why can’t you go to my website online since 1985 http://gays4jesus.com or watch my weekly TV program “Sundays at 7AM pacific standard time at http://scantv.org since 1985 or read my blogs, which this reply of mine will be posted. I have said I was in the Assemblies of God for 35 years. Why do you first assume I must be going to have an orgy on your facebook? This is what is so offensive and you don’t even have a clue what your words say. Wouldn’t it be so nice that just once a homophobe could check someone out before they simply assume they are going to promote something. By your language I have to assume you think I will promote topless women’s rights or abortion or God if a woman or other radical themes in some gay groups. Sorry most gays do not fit in that sort of lifestyle. But many str8s fit is really bazaar lifestyles so when a str8 joins your group do you tell them because they are str8 you will block them if they promote some sort of ogrgyfest? Nope you would not even hint as to a warning, until they actually promote an orgyfest. What also you are hinting to is that your idea of promoting a sinful life style is like opening up a conversation on the verses used against gays. Why is that promoting a gay lifestyle? Isn’t truth what you seek and so if a topic asking for said proof be good? I would love it to hear some fact from those that think gay is sin. But like I asked you refuse to backup any verse though you quickly referred to a couple verses leaving them at an assumed gay is sin meaning. God is truth, truth should not hurt you. Currently you are forced to believe lies about gays and you know nothing else, I am telling there is more to the story than your conditioning. Do you really want to condemn 650 million people to hell without hope in God? If you think, God changes gays I am also an expert in the ex-gay ministries also PFLAG its counterpart. I am not anywhere to promote sin, I am everywhere to help people reach the end with their salvation intact. We are living in the days that deceptions are rampant so much so as to trick even the elect. Christian can choose and will in large number to turn their backs on Jesus, My ministry is to giving facts that will help a Christian stand fast to the end. Billions are about to be killed what are you doing to help Christian holdfast? A law in fact set to go into effect this Dec 31 is a law that controls food nutrition would wide, It will have devastating consequences. Population reduction also is in the Bible that 6 billion will be killed before Jesus returns. Shocking things will become normal. Darfur incidents will become commonplace in America. The TWO will shut off a connection to Jesus this will feel like Jesus forsook you (he did not) and so for the first time in 2000years we will truly have to live by faith because the hardwired connection will be broken. My concern is that Christians begin to prepare their minds for the shakeup of status quo. I don’t just jump in people usually want to know and either they can go to my site or correspond privately or if topics begin to engage in these sort of questions, I am not popping in to distort any site. But if people want to adamantly condemn gays without explanation then yes I will speak to that. Like I am going at length with you because you just won’t budge and inch on your conditioned belief about gays. If you really believe gay is sin then study will back you up and you can present what you find. But you just won’t at all even hint that even you are actually ignorant on the topic and it is only from birth you were told gay was sin and to you when you read those few verses you did not think anything else need be done. Gays are not gang rapists and male temple prostitutes and that is whatyou are calling them. I want you to stop that and go read about it and come up with like what I have shown you the original meanings of the words. Perry certainly goes into detail about many words so why can’t you take some time to research both sides. You won’t die if you go to a site like Gay Christian 101 where you can read the 76 times the word arsenokoites was use in the 1,600 years after Paul used it in 1 Cor 6:9. Can you imagine so many Christians rely on arsenokoites to condemn gays and yet it is in documented form the entire articles written by Christian scholars only 76 times in 1600 years. None of those 76 times was it talking about gays. Now if I tell you 76 times you should be able to prove me wrong easy right. After Perry a TV preacher, hey don’t you have resources to study? Show how arsenokoites means gays and how Christians used arsenokoites to say gay is sin. Show me how you get gays into a story about str8 adults turning from GOD to gods in Romans. But I bet you won’t even take the time to read what I am writing.

Again, I KNOW you put the quote in about modern translations, but I sent you the letter because of others in the group.

gays4jesus: WELL did you go look at Westcott and Hort?

If you have an issue, leave a post on the wall. I never had an issue with your name.

gays4jesus: My ministry is to encourage Christians to keep the faith because great deceptions are coming. In most churches it is a sweet gathering only to entertain and have warm fuzzy with the Lord and other. Nothing wrong with this, but it is not last century anymore and even last week. We are the LAST DAYS’ Christians and life as we know it will change. Christians are not at the top of the list of desirable citizens in the coming kingdom and plenty of factual institutions exist to rid the world of Christians. I wish you could see what I see, changing over to the 1000 year reign of Christ means first antichrist’s kingdom which means no magic one day we got antichrist’s kingdom. It is a process and great suffering will happen in route to the declaration of a one would gov’t system. I don’t have issues except that if a person wants to say something that condemn 650 million people they better have some backup. God is not slack he is not going to ignore persecution of innocent people by his people forever. There is a set time that God will move to answer the prayers of those persecuted innocent ones by His people.

By your picture let me judge you since you judge me by a word in my name. I do not know if that really is your picture so I will assume like you that it is. You are black. How did you get the freedoms you have? Believe me I think you are human and not a race to be discriminated against. I am talking facts. For a long time in the USA blacks were not allowed to even preach to themselves or learn to read. If a white Christian taught a black to read they were in dire sin and would go to hell. White Christian slave owners could legally rape their slaves often this included girls. Black with help and PRAYER began to be set free, this took a long time. It was also largely secular and also Christian against Christian. I assume you know the story of Black rights even today we still have big problems. Were Christians right to treat blacks that way. Should I go into details of the struggles blacks had on their road to equal rights. Part of what I am saying that God is very much behind a fight for freedoms often it is secular. And often it is Christians against these freedoms. Today we can look back at many errors in the church and know better today. When I was in high school a white person marrying a black person was about as evil as you can get and this was in California not the south. Well today interracial marriages are nearly completely accepted.

The big hypocrisy here is people that has a history of fighting for equal rights and they were so persecuted even killed can now persecute others who are doing like their ancestors did standing up for their human rights. You being black I wonder do you have a conscious? I would think you could even hate Christians because white Christian recent ancestors often rape the slave black women. And Christians would not allow you to preach.

I hate needing to use your picture indicating you are black to point out that of all peoples you should understand the fight for human rights. I have had many many many many black people call me up and talk for hours condemning me because I am gay. They are fresh out of Christian persecution and slavery and they can so easily slip into condemning people in the same manner they were condemned. ROOTs was fiction, but based on tons of fact, I watched the original series, it was a fantastic story over centuries. It could almost be one of the most informing movies I have seen. I wonder have you seen ROOTS? But on top of the fight for freedom blacks have at least they were visible, you can’t know a gay person by looking at them most of the time. Black was granted eternal life by Christians but not equal rights. Gays are not given a hope of a chance for eternal life, you not only kill gays you don’t give them a hope in God. In 1967 God gave Catholic gays pastors, in 1969 God gave Protestant gays pastors, in 1969 God gave secular power to stand up and begin the rights movement. Up to now both Catholic and protestant gays have matured they have done the foot work, they got the facts and dug deep into the Bible and brought out what it says. Secular gays fought through marches and courts and ballot. These 3 groups brought us in 4 decades from zero acceptance to over 50% acceptance. This is without the Pentecostal gays doing anything. Pentecostal gays like other Pentecostals once the fire it lit mighty move of God occurs. Azusa street was an example for the modern Pentecostals. They got TBN and faith healing going. DayStar I am not sure how it started certainly seems to be catching up with TBN. Soon Pentecostal gays will be turned loose by God so you will see a great move of God. A side effect of this will be God moving on the side of gays in the sight of those that are condemning them. You can’t know this because you are wrapped up in the false doctrine against gays.

Once again I apologize for feeling I need to bringing up you being black (at least my assumption) but it is a powerful comparison because you understand how people treat you or your ancestors and you don’t have to go back very many years to se public degrading.

Your words to me is the same you assume black is inferior right? So you can condemn blacks right? It is easy to call blacks any name you want and lie about them saying they are all rapist and murderer and thieves tight? I am being harsh hoping to break through to your heart that gays are not what you are conditioned to believe. Don’t treat gays like white Christians treated blacks.

I hope you have a great night.

gays4jesus: Thanks I did have a good night. Tomorrow I will go to Victoria BC to do a couple TV programs.
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