Wednesday, November 11, 2009

Pastor Ken Hutcherson FaceBook Wall

This is on Pastor Ken Hutcherson FaceBook Wall

Ken is very outspoken in the anti-gay camp and worked hard to defeat Ref 71 (same as marriage bill)

My 1st comment on Ken’s FaceBook:


John Gaysforjesus Hey hi all you wonderful people. I am investigating why people say gay is sin and they use certain verses. I have talked with over 800,000 Christian that adamantly condemn gays, none offer explanation of how they get gays into any verse they use. Will anyone here explain it to me?

Top of Form

November 6 at 9:18am · Comment · Like ·

Right away, I got a comment on my comment:


Chuck Panarella

The words 'condemn gays' is out of place. We have all escaped from a life of sin. The only thing the homosexual movement does is enslave a person caught up in that sin. We don't condemn, but offer a way out. The same way out is offered to the Liar, the playboy who sleeps around and to anyone who calls on the name of Jesus.

Mon at 4:22pm ·


John Gaysforjesus

And as usual we have a person just flat out condemning gays without any attempt to explain how any verse talks about real gays. Chuck Please I beg you use the Bible and the Hebrew and Greek, explain history tell us how gang rape means gay is sin or male temple prostitutes means gay is sin. A playboy is a str8 man that loves porn and multiple sexual partners so way are you comparing str8 sexual immorality to gays. Just like the Bible you use a verse that says gang rape as a way to say gay is sin. Truth sets people free, if you need info about the ex-gay ministries and their failures I would be glad to talk to you about that too. I know a lot about that movement so can give you facts. I am still waiting for someone like Chuck to explain how he gets gays into a verse he may use to say gay is sin. Yesterday at 8:58am

Right away “again”, I got a comment back:


Chuck Panarella

Honestly John, if you read what i said carefully it is Romans 3:23. You can twist yourself into a scriptural pretzel trying to prove that a physical union of two men or two women is blessed by God, but it just isn't so.
Read Romans 1:18-32, 1 timothy 1:8-10 and just a basic understanding of Creation order. It was through the union of a man and a women that God worked creative order.

Yesterday at 3:50pm ·


John Gaysforjesus

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (KJV)

Yes indeed all have SINNED, but your implication specifically is that gay is sin, not a general all have sinned. You are the one twisting God’s word to suite your desire to condemn gays. Because I am gay does not evoke Rom. 3:23. Rom 3:23 is in place because you and I are humans. What you are doing is saying gay is sin, this is the issue and the issue I stated was for you to explain any verse you may use to say gay is sin. It is you that is saying in an automatic conditioned respond gay is sin and so I ask you how get that in a verse. You did exactly what I said homophobes do and that is the part that you just state a verse. You used Rom. 18-32. You want me to read it. I have been in the Assemblies of God for 36 years and I have been preaching on TV for 25 years, I am sure I do know that verse since it is the main verse homophobes used so often out of the 14 verses generally used which it comes down to 4 actual verses. & verses use the word for “male temple prostitute” so we can count that as one verse since they all mean the same. We can go into each of those verses if you like. Romans1:18-32 tell me why you cannot explain it to me. I bet all you can do is say it is simple and clear. However, absolutely it starts by saying str8 adults turned from GOD to gods. In verse, 24-25 a change takes place generated by GOD. If you are correct, str8s turned gay in these 2 verses. However, homophobes do not use 18-32 they use most often just 26-27.

5446 phusikos (foo-see-kos'); from 5449; physical", i.e. (by implication) instinctive: KJV-- natural. Compare 5591. 5449 phusis (foo'-sis); from 5453; growth (by germination or expansion), i.e. (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension, a genus or sort; figuratively, native disposition, constitution or usuage: KJV-- ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).

The Greek words defined themselves as how you were born not what you decided to change to be. It adds a garanteer in the word Instinct. What verse 24 begins is str8s as you are wishing decide to be gay. Worst still is verse 26-27 description of an incredibly vile picture which is so descriptive that if gays were being described you can see it without effort. REAL life gays do not behavior at all like 26-27 suggests. What makes you hate it so much is your own desires for females and so it makes you sick to image same sex sex. So what you do with females meaning before you married you dated your wife, fell in love, then married her. Problem is you may have also had sex with other women, as it is rare to have Christian str8 men to not have had sex before marriage. However, even whatever you did you are believing it is a normal str8 system to end up married and it is not vile. You know gang rape is vile and you know orgies is vile and other abusive and pleasure only seeking str8 sex. Now we go to Romans in the word of God. Paul really went to a famous fertility temple in Corinth; in that temple were over 1000 temple prostitutes and many orgy rooms. Also, in that temple was that statue to the unknown god.

In Athens, there was a temple specifically dedicated to that god and very often Athenians would swear "in the name of the Unknown god" Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. (KJV)

Both in Rome and in Corinth Paul saw a fertility temple on every corner, just like we see a church on every corner today. What God gave them (the THEY people that turned from GOD to gods) was to join in the ritual orgies in these fertility temples. In that specific temple there were known to be over 1000 temple prostitutes. How did you arrive at the verse is talking about gays. In verse 28-32, lets look:

Rom 1:28-32 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (KJV)

Now let’s look at real gays in todays’ world (you can also look at the past gays were the same) it is a known if gays were banned from the health care system (this was attempted in the last couple decades in Washington state) THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WOULD DISINTEGRATE. Employers say gays are their best workers, At my job at a large company we have many gays and they are indeed the best workers. In families during crisis is common to see the gay family member to take charge and see the family through the crisis. I could spend a lot of time on the good deeds of gays that are very very opposite verse 28-32. What I ask you to day is explain how you get gays into 18-32 and all you did was tell me to read it.

1 Tim 1:8-10 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; (KJV)

It was Christian legal to own concubines up too the 11th century. What LAW? The Law of Moses? How do you interpret the LAW? “if a man use it lawfully”? huh? Who says how to use it “lawfully”? YOU? To obey the LAW is obey ALL the LAW, I am not saying abandon the LAW I am saying if you are going to use the LAW then obey that LAW yourself. What you want to say is all gays are criminals. Bet you will come back to say I am twisting your words, but this is what I mean you need to explain how you get what you get in a verse especially if it is going to send 650 million people to hell. Again your choice of a verse indicates because you did not explain what you are meaning or explaining the verse you imply no gays are saved and you are evoking a list of sins to place gays in. Earlier I mention a anti-gay from Oregon came to Washington to make gay banned from the work place including any str8 supporters, what they wrote in the ballot petition would be by law placing gays in a list comparable to sex with animals, this would also put many “races” in this class too. It was tossed because that Christian group covered the flap so that could not be read so lying to potential signers. This verse is used because it has the word for “male temple prostitute in it “arsenokoites”. Paul wrote this word that means “sodomite that means “male temple prostitute”. Interesting about this word “arsenokoites” we have documentation on it for the next 1600 years since Paul wrote it down. The documentation is from Christian authors ministers. The entire article is intact to this day and you can read each instance of it being documented. ONLY 76 times in that 1600 years was this word used in Christendom. Never was it used to talk about gays. Generally, it talked about sex out of species. 1600 years is a very interesting for that was the time Protestants fully adopted the 100-year-old Catholic anti-gay doctrine they invented to create scandal to purge leaders from power that did not have the same ideals.

4205 pornos (por'-nos); from pernemi (to sell; akin to the base of 4097); a (male) prostitute (as venal), i.e. (by analogy) a debauchee (libertine): KJV-- fornicator, whoremonger. 733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace); from 730 and 2845; a sodomite: KJV-- abuser of (that defileself) with mankind.

Male prostitute in the 1 Tim:8-10 does not mean gay prostitute. In Paul’s day gigolo escort service provided by str8 males to female customers were quite common, almost unheard of if not near non-existant wwere gay ordinary prostitutes, However, sacred fertility male prostitutes as shown in 733’s sodomite which is the same as the Hebrew’s 6945:

qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh. This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin.

Does clearly show it is not your average gay that is looking to meet someone for a date to fall in love then marry which is what “GAY” means.

6763 tsela` (tsay-law'); or (feminine) tsal` ah (tsal-aw'); from 6760; a rib (as curved), literally (of the body) or figuratively (of a door, i.e. leaf); hence, a side, literally (of a person) or figuratively (of an object or the sky, i.e. quarter); architecturally, a (especially floor or ceiling) timber or plank (single or collective, i.e. a flooring): KJV-- beam, board, chamber, corner, leaf, plank, rib, side (chamber).

If you take time to study RIB you will find Adam’s RIB is taking about a CELL, which we now know has DNA. Steve was in the DNA. Also Your idea about God’s plan starts with sex between siblings. This sort of things takes a lot o f time to evolve to cousins in the same tribe and all this is done with strict arranging marriage by family patriarchs. The, as you say without back up, creative order got a first act that males would feel in their guts that they own the females period and we have fought this ever since and it takes laws to force us to treat the woman fairly.

Gen 3:16-18 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (KJV)

“and he shall have rule over thee” was this God’s plan or was it the results of Adam joining Eve’s sin of eating that Apple? Try to keep in mind it is str8s that devised abortion as for gays throughout history they had children and today it is common to find gay couples with kids. Some biological some adopted.

Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (KJV)

You seem to love to try to break apart what God has joined together. I have been with my lover for 20 years and you would never consider asking for testimony of what Jesus is doing in my life. You would never even have come to mind to think about having any gay Christian give testimony would you on anything in their walk with Jesus. Do you think for a second that because you don’t ask that that stops any relationship Jesus has with anyone?

Once again I ask you to go into explanation, bring to be why you think gay is sin, truth sets people free and so if you so believe the Bible condemns gays why won’t you walk through the verses explaining them And go into history of the Bible days to show how Moses or Paul talked about real ordinary gays. Remember up to now y u acted like all the homophobes of the 800,000 that I have talked to, now this 800,000 I stopped counting over a decade ago. So can you be the first? The most educated Bible scholars will go no further than I saying it’s in the Bible, it’s simple, it’s clear, read this verse, or other phrase that avoid the how you got gays into the phrase you think it is in.

clip_image002[3]You can write a follow up comment that will post on Ken Hutcherson’s FaceBook Wall:

Bottom of Form

No comments: