IE Pat Robertson’s 2-19-08 show’s ex-gay claims
not complete or edited for easy reading yet
On a show today Pat talked on ex-gays. It is so amazing how people that think gay is sin can so consistently avoid using facts.
Case in point a no offense intended bull dyke lesbian had years with her lover who told her God loves her and generally things that were if it is good or love and not hurting anyone then it is ok with God. I am not quoting her just making the point that this lesbian decided to change because her church said gay is sin and her only positive gay information was vague concept that love covers everything thing (little more detail I am not going into because I want to make a point concerning claim ex-gay works).
First and foremost is in Pat’s presentation not even a clue as to real Bible words were explained and the ex-gay lesbian’s approach was forget the Bible and listen to her pastor. She said right away the church was so accepting and the narrator explained church open doors for ex-gays. Meaning only way any church should accept gays is if they are committing themselves to be ex-gay.
Also stated that the hindrances to this were churches that were tolerant to gays and believed gays can’t change so this made a church wide policy hard to achieve.
I have been around a very long time; Pat referred to Exodus International as taking leadership role in the ex-gay movement and had over 100 ex-gay ministries that associated themselves with Exodus. I accepted Jesus around the year Exodus began. I know considerable about Exodus on how it started the 2 founders becoming lovers the takeover of str8s and new leaders that never even had sex one marrying right away the secretary who was a str8 woman.
The two founders went across the land trying to make amends for their few years as Exodus’s leaders. They told of how ex-gay ministry harms people. Pat tried to say there is no harm done; this is so very stupid because great harm is done. First of all each ex-gay that maintain a claim they are delivered live in a lie that with a few question can be uncovered.
When the bull dyke was saying how she was no longer gay because of my experience and signs I can see in body language it was easy to note she was not delivered and she was claiming deliverance speaking it into being as many Pastors teach this type doctrine. I just have seen too much and know too much and seen too many studies. The study Pat referred to trying to show no harm is done when gays become ex-gays is terribly misleading. Their complaint is media and many Christian groups stand in the way of reporting their findings.
This study tries to defy facts and they look at cases just because some do go to long term. What is vagrantly missing is that nearly all ex-gays while ex-gay will not leave well enou7gh alone as the ex-gay ministries claim in their doctrine and policies. It is said often that they are helping those that want help and so those not wanting help so be it and so they don’t as it were bother those. Problem is all ex-gays go out and when asked or they just do it on their own condemn all gays. A result of becoming ex-gay is to condemn gays from that point on.
I am not a fly by night wishing my own ideas to be fact, I have been researching ex-gays for 35 years and I attract ex-gays in large numbers and so I get intimate detail about ex-gays and their beliefs. So when I write this to you I have done my homework.
If gay were sin it would stand any test you give it. Facts and history and ancient words and much more would just out of history right into those that condemn gays lap so they with little study could present volumes of muscle behind their statements gay is sin.
Real life facts is in the far over 800,000 homophobes I talk with over the years not even one can produce one piece of evidence that gay is sin. They just say it so simple, it’s so clear, God hate it or at least the practice of it. I even have a part of my ministry that flat out is designed to beg homophobes to explain how they get gays into a verse and none will. Pat ran for president but you will never see him explain how he gets gays into the Bible. It is an assumed feature of his ministry. He has at time put out a great deal on his belief about gays and I have gotten many gays that has gotten direct contacts and mailings from him so I know some detail about Pat and one is he refuses completely to go past assumption that gay is sin.
That study Pat used to say gays becoming ex-gay harm are just does not fit into the picture. But some of the worst attackers towards gays are ex-gays. My chat screen name is gays4jesus and so I get a ton of people and ex-gays often flock to me to condemn me and claim they are delivered. Over these decade what is a main pattern is ministries to ex-gays toss out any resemblance to Christianity at least in the faith of the ex-gay ministry’s leaders.
Pentecostal ex-gay ministries do not use the Holy Spirit operation and you will never see any sort of move of the Holy Spirit like in their home church in a worship service. In Pentecostal ex-gay ministries what you find is a very fat book that detail behavior modification techniques of secular therapists. The irony is their home church most likely condemns secular therapists. An Assemblies of God pastor told me once the women therapists in Seattle were all lesbians.
Pastors in presenting Jesus will go into depths using every means available to show evidence or facts about Jesus outside the Bible verses to try to prove the Bible is right on Jesus rising from the dead. So many topics pastors spend a great deal of time on using every means possible to aid their sermon topic. They dive deep into original languages and historical fact and ancient buildings and much more. But concerning gays they just state it is sin.
The gay issue is so simple because there are really only 14 verses to really deal with that has anything to do with same sex sex. A couple of the 14 verses do not mention same sex sex but or so commonly connected to the anti gay doctrine and have been a part of it from the beginning in the 12th century when the Catholic invented it to purge leaders that did not agree with them. It took 100 more years for the Protestants to adopt that doctrine. It is also interesting to note that the Greek word 733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace) can be documented to have been used only 76 times up to the 16th century when the Protestants adopted the Catholic anti-gay doctrine. 733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace) in those 76 times that a meaning is possible meant sex out of species otherwise where it could not be determined what it meant there was no sign in the usage of 733 arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace) to have any way at all to connect it to gays.
With a wealth of history still pastors or those that condemn gays just won’t present an explanation how they get Bible words to be talking about gays. Likewise ex-gays never do anything except adopt in full and become a MP3 player for the recorded 12th century antigay doctrine. They do not go do research except using homophobic materials.
When I accepted Jesus I committed my life to him and included though the pastor never mentioned or talked about gays just said pray the sinner’s prayer after some 100 people came up in a prophecy rally. I meant my prayer goes something like this one:
To accept Jesus pray this prayer:
God be merciful to me a sinner! I believe Christ died on the Cross for me, that God rose him on the 3rd day, and that His Precious Blood will cleanse me from all my sins. Forgive me of my sins and come into my heart as my Lord and my Savior. Help me Lord to do thy will each day. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
TO understand accepting Jesus read these verses at: http://gays4jesus.com/saved.html also ask Jesus to baptize you in the Holy Spirit. You will speak in tongues. Acts Ch 2 Read the KJV Bible to learn more about Jesus.
If you prayed and meant this prayer let me know gay4jesus@gays4jesus.com
I told God see 3 feet behind me (I was standing at the altar with 100 others accepting Jesus, my lover sitting in the first row) my lover whom I love if gay is sin like Christian say then as I said I would accept you if you were truth and so if gay is sin then I will leave my lover. Show me if gay is sin or not.
I nearly lived in Christian book stores reading everything I could on gays. Now this was 1974 mind you and there were only homophobic materials. I read and read and read for years everything. I read the parallel Bible versions and ones with Hebrew and Greek originals written under the English. I went to the library and read everyone on gays. I also was not out of the closet to friends or family or work, but in my private life with my lover we went everywhere. A gay rodeo with over 55,000 gays that turn Reno once a year into a gay city. If you looked out your window for those 4 days all you could see are gays on the streets of Reno and go into all the Casinos just gays, really hard to see if there were any str8s. I was with my lover whom I loved and so was not there to find sex but we went dancing and hit every gay bar in Reno (before saved). I read every gay newspaper nearly from all over the world. I knew what was happening and the progress of the works to get equal rights and court cases, I knew the pros and cons and I watched every talk variety TV show where often it was antigay against (pro)gays. I been to a few myself.
I read many gay stories and research studies and many types of situations. I knew gay history. I spent every night in gay dance bars mostly for 8 years after I divorced my lover that was with me for 10 years. So I saw gays coming and going meeting people then disappearing, Talked to many saw patterns and trends and more. If you go to bars to find pain you find it if you go to enjoy dance you enjoy dance, if you go to drink you get drunk of buzzed if you don’t drink or drug these don’t effect you. People make their lives. Hang out with evil and evil comes your way.
After I accepted Jesus we stopped going to bars I never drank (drinking for me was hey let have fun party dance, never much a problem) that year I stopped had enough hangovers and 3 weeks later met Jesus. But we stopped bars partly because now I could see satan tactics on certain people more clearly so I thought. And we stopped drinking anyway.
Divorce gay or str8 is never fun but very similar, but I am not talking about that here in this topic. I been to nearly every gay bar in the LA area, mainly to see read and dance with my lover. Point here is to give background keep this in mind as you read the above.
I spent a while getting involved with gay Christian outreaches and spent over 7 years total in MCC, but also not missing my own church the Assemblies of God, now in my 35th year with them.
I for a time was getting involved with secular active movements and even on interfaith meeting of leaderships of the various gay faith groups. The above it a very small part of the story behind my desire to seek truth.
In the Christian books stores in the 1970s even though all material was against gays because I was gay and I do know gays after all maybe gay bars are not the best place to get a good picture, but in those days about the only place gays could meet was in a bar or a park and I was not into park meetings. I was into the boy meets girl they date they fall in love they marry except it was boy meets boy instead of boy meets girl. THIS SHOULD BE KEY FOR YOU TO FIND GAYS IN THE BIBLE!
Reading news about gays all around the world and movements to get gay rights and stop the horrible abuse of gays just because they are gay. No agenda just simply stop condemning us. AND being gay myself then reading book by homophobes in Christian book stores it was easy to see lie after lie. NOW if God is truth how can GOD condemn gays with lies? But none the less lie after lie after lie about gays were in these books by Christians some quite well known.
Comparing Greek to English I saw sodomite in no way shape of form meant gays. And commentaries often related it to sodomy. This word was invented in 900AD as an attempt to keep str8 sex in the missionary position. It also
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