Sunday, October 11, 2009

Jude 1:7 "fornication" 14 Verses in a seven part mini Series

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(7) Jude 1:7 "fornication" 14 Verses in a seven part mini Series


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clintjordan (2 hours ago) Show Hide


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You are wrong. The men in Sodom and Gomorrah never took the daughters, but rather, refused them. The cities were not destroyed because of an attempt to rape the angels, simply because before the angels were sent, God had already planned to destroy it, and it is because of this one factor that this teaching is disproved. Stop trying to justify yourself.

gays4jesus: The video clintjordan replied to is about:

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (KJV)

Ezek 16:49-50 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good. (KJV)

Jasher, Chapter 19:34 And they took Paltith and brought her before their judges, and they said to them, Thus did she do, and it is she who supplied the poor man with bread, therefore did he not die all this time; now therefore declare to us the punishment due to this woman for having transgressed our law.

The entire book of Jasher is below. It was considered to be in the Bible but Genesis won out. But being in the running it is a very interesting 2nd rendering of the accounts in Genesis almost chapter by chapter.

Yes, it is a non-issue about why the cities were destroyed. Try to think about it I am talking to homophobes and it is homophobes that say the cities were destroyed because of gays. Why are you correcting me? I got tons of my sites and info to get into detail about what I know about the verse. But a related verse does show men taking another man’s concubine instead of his man guest.

Judg 19:25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. (KJV)

Also think about it, 650 million gays and you question it when a gay person talks about a verse that so many homophobic Christians have bombarded gays regularly on this very verse. It is why I preach weekly on TV and have sites on the web. To show the verses are not talking about gays. Gen. 19 details a story that if the goals of the people coming to Lot’s house happened the angels if they were human would have been raped to death. That is just the fact of the verse, not the reason God destroyed the cities.

The strangest comment is this really dumb statement “stop trying to justify yourself” Keep in mind it is almost impossible to hear through a str8 service that will reflect on sin at some point to give the example gay is sin by referring as though it is a auto sin and no need to explain it thing. All the heinous acts of str8s in the world since Jesus and all a pastor can come up with is to condemn gays? Homophobes justify their hatred of gays by not explaining anything to them about how these homophobes got gays into any verse. If gay really was a sin then why is it so hard to use a verse that really talks about real gays. 100% not gay acts is the act of two whole cities of men and women coming to a person’s house to rape their guest to death. Gen 19:4 says “all the people” and so what does that suppose to mean?

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: (KJV)

5971 `am (am); from 6004; a people (as a congregated unit); specifically, a tribe (as those of Israel); hence (collectively) troops or attendants; figuratively, a flock: KJV-- folk, men, nation, people.

In verse 5 we have the infamous “to know” and here is the Hebrew for it:

3045 yada` (yaw-dah'); a primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively, instruction, designation, punishment, etc.) [as follow]: KJV-- acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, makeself) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.

The people of the 2 cities already knew the angels were up to know good, after all it took the angel less than a day to get to Sodom and word spreads very fast in those days and they knew the angels had talked to Abraham and they wanted to know why they were in their city.

clintjordan (2 hours ago) Show Hide


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Fornication is out of wedlock sex, whether it be male and female, male and male. What Jude 1:7 says is, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Strange flesh is unnatural sex, as male on male sex is also unnatural, as described in Romans 1:18-27.

WEDLOCK as in whose definition? The Garden definition was no real marriages at all; just a brother would have sex with a sister. The Bible does not explain much detail. FACT no humans just Adam and Eve, Fact babies would have to have sex together to make more humans. Marriage evolution is how the Bible defines marriages. 1st ones were siblings and there were no pastors or courts to give a license or intermediaters. It is not clear at all in the 1st 1000 years about how marriage were performed or how couples got hooked together. Lots of ancient books to give someone’s thoughts on it and some of those books were like Bible for centuries. Then Noah’s thing. The Flood and 1st cousins got married though how this happened is not describe we just guess. But at least we are sure it was at least cousins now and not siblings that married each other, though still what was a marriage, no defining detail is in the Bible. Nothing much except they multiplied for another 1000years. Like the 1st 1000 years the people of God sinned, there was no atheists or much in the way of other god’s. At the tower of Babel, it is said in the Bible they want to build a building that would reach Heaven where GOD is. This was a no no obviously with God. Still no real defining of what a marriage was other than statements of bloodlines who had who. Zappola no one spoke the same language any more (studies guesses and wishes say groups had the same languages and the gathered according to the groups and went off to all parts of the world with the help of a Bible word for one continent ripping and tearing apart and drifting away to their current positions today. Again emphasis on study research guesses and wishes and ancient books and more to come up with the up steps. This makes for humans all over the world. It also allows for separate customs that had began since 1st cousins sex created enough babies eventually that 2nd cousin and 3rd cousins began to be preferred. (beside the curse that pretty much forced males to think they are superior to women and that hard work is a sign of manhood). What I am saying we simply have no definitive “this is a Bible marriage yet” Abraham’s turn at bat, God said I give you this land and somehow he had a wife and so finally had a baby but not after sex with slave girls past time because no babies from the wife, then hey baby from the wife and now we have Jacob who God changed his name to Israel. What a hasle for him to marry the one he wanted, he had to be a slave to an uncle and then was tricked to marry the other daughter and had to slave a lot longer, finally married Rachel his dream. Then a contest who could pop out the most babies and not easy so add the slave women to make more babies. Well we get 12 distinct kids that so now we have tribes. Now start the custom of marrying in your own tribe. Hmm how did that happen if that brings you back to Garden sex with siblings? Ahh the answer go out and fight wars and or go to other nations steal the women or something to marry them. Now you have it right RIGHT? First though hate the daddy’s favorite say the lions ate him. Get a famine, that brother said come to Egypt. Hmm Favorite son seems to have married in to other gods family? Let my people go, then the Hebrew 12 tribes gets a nation of their own. Now concrete marry in your own tribe with exceptions to go get women from other nations and also still have slave that you can have sex with. We really are not getting the Bible to tell us details about what is a “under God “marriage really is, are we? Moses got the LAW, but Moses got divorcement legalized by God too. Because God said this was not so from the beginning (confusing because so many sexual partners were part of a lot of famous Bible characters life)but for Moses’ sake God allowed divorcement which is different from “putting away your wife” Pretty much this sort of marrying lasted until Jesus came . In Jesus day it was still families decided marriage at birth or a very young age who would marry who and what payments or other profits could be gained. Still concubines and slaves were legal and multiple sexual partners remained common even up to the 11th century. Bible marriage never ever shows a man chooses a wife because he wanted to date and get married. The Bible does have love stories. Solomon’s love story remember, he had 700 wives and 600 concubines or something like that. So, what was his love song really about? I am not making a mockery about marriage, but only trying to get you to think so you won’t place a false belief into written Bible words. It was the 12th century that moved us into modern marriages. Paganism had a well developed marriage rituals and systems in place that matches what we commonly call “God’s Bible marriages”. The rituals we use in wedding and reception were to fertility gods. So many pagans came to Christianity in the 12th century they also brought their marriage styles with them and soon it became considered Christian in origin. What is fornication? What is marriage? 100% legal to have sex to make babies with a slave in Jesus’ day and throughout the Bible. Multi-sexual partners was pretty common. Falling in love through dating was not common. Love of course happens so the issue is not a no love marriage, although for 1000 years after Jesus sex was to make babies with the wife, for pleasure and love a concubine or mistress was legal. The Bible details concubines and slave for baby making with no condemnation. Only condemnation is having sex with someone’s else’s property which was also what a wife was in those Bible days.

I am saying all this because simple statements like: “Fornication is out of wedlock sex” is like you don’t even know anything about the Bible concerning the time through Acts 29. Everyone in the Bible almost had sex out of marriage and was not called in fornication and was not condemned by God or anyone. It is more like having sex out of legally authorize sexual partners. Sounds a lot like I am making marriage not all that so good a thing or putting it down and that would be about as wrong as you could think about what I am saying. I am saying your words are not representing the facts. God is truth and so it is via truth you speak when speaking about God and his word. If you want to comment to me or in my sites I expect to hear some apparent appearance that you know something about what you are saying. So easy to say the Bible says. I just walked through though somewhat harshly the evolution of marriage in the Bible. God does not indicate anything about the changes in marriages and he does not seem to tell anyone how to marry. Maybe in oral codes, other ancient writings some more detail comes out, but we are talking Bible if you add in other books it opens the door that you also need to hear out other sources just as creditable.

When someone uses the word fornication when talking with or about gays it implies 100% you are saying gay has to be sin because they cannot get married. So they automatically when having sex to be out of wedlock. You simply do not accept what God joins together let not man put asunder. Another reason I put Jasher 19 below, which even as I am writing this Perry of Manna-fest on DayStar also used Jasher in his preaching (not chapter19) is to show you what was going on in Sodom. Sodom was a wicked city not because it had an active gay community. You know lots of gay clubs, Skating clubs, hiking clubs, gay Christian churches, dance bars, gay restaurants, etc. but it constructed bed on street corners then kidnapped people to sexually torture to death. Also show at least a book that was considered seriously had details about Lot’s daughters, a couple stayed in Sodom one was married.

Point of my video is to deal with homophobes that just cannot seem to know the difference in what is marriage and assume gay couples lives in fornication and the city was destroyed because of gays. These are lies and as long as there are those that feel the need to condemn gays there is also the need for the message gay is not sin to go forth.

Roman’s 1:26-27’s nature and natural is “seed and instinct” meaning if you imply gay is not natural it is saying that they were not gay to begin with that they were str8, We are talking Paul’s day Greek and the use of nature and natural which does not mean the same way we could think it today. For a person to be gay in 26-27 they got that way by verse 24-25 and so were str8 and adult because they knew God and turned to gods. But also in 28-32 these got more from God they got reprobate minds to do every sort of evil. Well gays were not str8 to begin with and they do not turn from God. This is the facts and it is not a guess or a wish. Real life gays were gay already. Christian families’ kids usually are Christians and it takes quite a thing to get to turn to other gods or become atheists and 6.5 billion people show str8s goes through a lot and turns from God and is not something you can use on gays should a gay turn from God. Paul is addressing Hebrews that turned from God and turned to the many fertility gods in Rome and in Corinth. What changes took place in 24-25 was that these Hebrews actually went to fertility temples and joined in the sexual orgies style worship in those temples. Gays are in fact opposite of verse 28-32. Hard to comprehend how a homophobes can use Romans when there is so much information about good works and good deeds gays do not even remotely appearing in any shape of the imagination to be reprobate doing all sorts of evil. You have to be in complete reacting to your hatred and see only pictures in your mind of some sort of imaginary conditions that completely blinds you to real life gay behaviors.

Your strange flesh if we go by Jude, which refers to Sodom, which refers to angels.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (KJV)

We know sex was done by some kind of being called the sons of God. (these today are part of the ELITE that are very much controlling the world and will be very much part of antichrist’s kingdom). Satan sown tares that grow up with the wheat. It is credible info that in those days it was known that it could be a way to gain power to have sex with angels, maybe be wild statements and radical, but still it is credible when you really get out and check out what is available info to those that take time to seek the truth. We hardly know the tip of the iceberg of what things are out there and what we will see before the return of Jesus. This coming grand finally will bring great shocks to our way of thinking and be why many will say to that mountain fall on me. But here you are wanting to send 650 million gays to hell because you watch a little bit of my video on Jude verse 7.

Sacred-texts Apocrypha Index Previous Next

Book of Jasher, Chapter 19

1 And the cities of Sodom had four judges to four cities, and these were their names, Serak in the city of Sodom, Sharkad in Gomorrah, Zabnac in Admah, and Menon in Zeboyim.

2 And Eliezer Abraham's servant applied to them different names, and he converted Serak to Shakra, Sharkad to Shakrura, Zebnac to Kezobim, and Menon to Matzlodin.

3 And by desire of their four judges the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had beds erected in the streets of the cities, and if a man came to these places they laid hold of him and brought him to one of their beds, and by force made him to lie in them.

4 And as he lay down, three men would stand at his head and three at his feet, and measure him by the length of the bed, and if the man was less than the bed these six men would stretch him at each end, and when he cried out to them they would not answer him.

5 And if he was longer than the bed they would draw together the two sides of the bed at each end, until the man had reached the gates of death.

6 And if he continued to cry out to them, they would answer him, saying, Thus shall it be done to a man that cometh into our land.

7 And when men heard all these things that the people of the cities of Sodom did, they refrained from coming there.

8 And when a poor man came to their land they would give him silver and gold, and cause a proclamation in the whole city not to give him a morsel of bread to eat, and if the stranger should remain there some days, and die from hunger, not having been able to obtain a morsel of bread, then at his death all the people of the city would come and take their silver and gold which they had given to him.

9 And those that could recognize the silver or gold which they had given him took it back, and at his death they also stripped him of his garments, and they would fight about them, and he that prevailed over his neighbor took them.

10 They would after that carry him and bury him under some of the shrubs in the deserts; so they did all the days to any one that came to them and died in their land.

11 And in the course of time Sarah sent Eliezer to Sodom, to see Lot and inquire after his welfare.

12 And Eliezer went to Sodom, and he met a man of Sodom fighting with a stranger, and the man of Sodom stripped the poor man of all his clothes and went away.

13 And this poor man cried to Eliezer and supplicated his favor on account of what the man of Sodom had done to him.

14 And he said to him, Why dost thou act thus to the poor man who came to thy land?

15 And the man of Sodom answered Eliezer, saying, Is this man thy brother, or have the people of Sodom made thee a judge this day, that thou speakest about this man?

16 And Eliezer strove with the man of Sodom on account of the poor man, and when Eliezer approached to recover the poor man's clothes from the man of Sodom, he hastened and with a stone smote Eliezer in the forehead.

17 And the blood flowed copiously from Eliezer's forehead, and when the man saw the blood he caught hold of Eliezer, saying, Give me my hire for having rid thee of this bad blood that was in thy forehead, for such is the custom and the law in our land.

18 And Eliezer said to him, Thou hast wounded me and requirest me to pay thee thy hire; and Eliezer would not hearken to the words of the man of Sodom.

19 And the man laid hold of Eliezer and brought him to Shakra the judge of Sodom for judgment.

20 And the man spoke to the judge, saying, I beseech thee my lord, thus has this man done, for I smote him with a stone that the blood flowed from his forehead, and he is unwilling to give me my hire.

21 And the judge said to Eliezer, This man speaketh truth to thee, give him his hire, for this is the custom in our land; and Eliezer heard the words of the judge, and he lifted up a stone and smote the judge, and the stone struck on his forehead, and the blood flowed copiously from the forehead of the judge, and Eliezer said, If this then is the custom in your land give thou unto this man what I should have given him, for this has been thy decision, thou didst decree it.

22 And Eliezer left the man of Sodom with the judge, and he went away.

23 And when the kings of Elam had made war with the kings of Sodom, the kings of Elam captured all the property of Sodom, and they took Lot captive, with his property, and when it was told to Abraham he went and made war with the kings of Elam, and he recovered from their hands all the property of Lot as well as the property of Sodom.

24 At that time the wife of Lot bare him a daughter, and he called her name Paltith, saying, Because God had delivered him and his whole household from the kings of Elam; and Paltith daughter of Lot grew up, and one of the men of Sodom took her for a wife.

25 And a poor man came into the city to seek a maintenance, and he remained in the city some days, and all the people of Sodom caused a proclamation of their custom not to give this man a morsel of bread to eat, until he dropped dead upon the earth, and they did so.

26 And Paltith the daughter of Lot saw this man lying in the streets starved with hunger, and no one would give him any thing to keep him alive, and he was just upon the point of death.

27 And her soul was filled with pity on account of the man, and she fed him secretly with bread for many days, and the soul of this man was revived.

28 For when she went forth to fetch water she would put the bread in the water pitcher, and when she came to the place where the poor man was, she took the bread from the pitcher and gave it him to eat; so she did many days.

29 And all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah wondered how this man could bear starvation for so many days.

30 And they said to each other, This can only be that he eats and drinks, for no man can bear starvation for so many days or live as this man has, without even his countenance changing; and three men concealed themselves in a place where the poor man was stationed, to know who it was that brought him bread to eat.

31 And Paltith daughter of Lot went forth that day to fetch water, and she put bread into her pitcher of water, and she went to draw water by the poor man's place, and she took out the bread from the pitcher and gave it to the poor man and he ate it.

32 And the three men saw what Paltith did to the poor man, and they said to her, It is thou then who hast supported him, and therefore has he not starved, nor changed in appearance nor died like the rest.

33 And the three men went out of the place in which they were concealed, and they seized Paltith and the bread which was in the poor man's hand.

34 And they took Paltith and brought her before their judges, and they said to them, Thus did she do, and it is she who supplied the poor man with bread, therefore did he not die all this time; now therefore declare to us the punishment due to this woman for having transgressed our law.

35 And the people of Sodom and Gomorrah assembled and kindled a fire in the street of the city, and they took the woman and cast her into the fire and she was burned to ashes.

36 And in the city of Admah there was a woman to whom they did the like.

37 For a traveler came into the city of Admah to abide there all night, with the intention of going home in the morning, and he sat opposite the door of the house of the young woman's father, to remain there, as the sun had set when be had reached that place; and the young woman saw him sitting by the door of the house.

38 And he asked her for a drink of water and she said to him, Who art thou? and he said to her, I was this day going on the road, and reached here when the sun set, so I will abide here all night, and in the morning I will arise early and continue my journey.

39 And the young woman went into the house and fetched the man bread and water to eat and drink.

40 And this affair became known to the people of Admah, and they assembled and brought the young woman before the judges, that they should judge her for this act.

41 And the judge said, The judgment of death must pass upon this woman because she transgressed our law, and this therefore is the decision concerning her.

42 And the people of those cities assembled and brought out the young woman, and anointed her with honey from head to foot, as the judge had decreed, and they placed her before a swarm of bees which were then in their hives, and the bees flew upon her and stung her that her whole body was swelled.

43 And the young woman cried out on account of the bees, but no one took notice of her or pitied her, and her cries ascended to heaven.

44 And the Lord was provoked at this and at all the works of the cities of Sodom, for they had abundance of food, and had tranquility amongst them, and still would not sustain the poor and the needy, and in those days their evil doings and sins became great before the Lord.

45 And the Lord sent for two of the angels that had come to Abraham's house, to destroy Sodom and its cities.

46 And the angels rose up from the door of Abraham's tent, after they had eaten and drunk, and they reached Sodom in the evening, and Lot was then sitting in the gate of Sodom, and when he saw them he rose to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground.

47 And he pressed them greatly and brought them into his house, and he gave them victuals which they ate, and they abode all night in his house.

48 And the angels said to Lot, Arise, go forth from this place, thou and all belonging to thee, lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of this city, for the Lord will destroy this place.

49 And the angels laid hold upon the hand of Lot and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hands of his children, and all belonging to him, and they brought him forth and set him without the cities.

50 And they said to Lot, Escape for thy life, and he fled and all belonging to him.

51 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah and upon all these cities brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.

52 And he overthrew these cities, all the plain and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground; and Ado the wife of Lot looked back to see the destruction of the cities, for her compassion was moved on account of her daughters who remained in Sodom, for they did not go with her.

53 And when she looked back she became a pillar of salt, and it is yet in that place unto this day.

54 And the oxen which stood in that place daily licked up the salt to the extremities of their feet, and in the morning it would spring forth afresh, and they again licked it up unto this day.

55 And Lot and two of his daughters that remained with him fled and escaped to the cave of Adullam, and they remained there for some time.

56 And Abraham rose up early in the morning to see what had been done to the cities of Sodom; and he looked and beheld the smoke of the cities going up like the smoke of a furnace.

57 And Lot and his two daughters remained in the cave, and they made their father drink wine, and they lay with him, for they said there was no man upon earth that could raise up seed from them, for they thought that the whole earth was destroyed.

58 And they both lay with their father, and they conceived and bare sons, and the first born called the name of her son Moab, saying, From my father did I conceive him; he is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

59 And the younger also called her son Benami; he is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

60 And after this Lot and his two daughters went away from there, and he dwelt on the other side of the Jordan with his two daughters and their sons, and the sons of Lot grew up, and they went and took themselves wives from the land of Canaan, and they begat children and they were fruitful and multiplied.

Next: Chapter 20

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