Does Romans 1:26 condemn lesbians?

Lesbos Harbor on the
Greek island of Lesbos

Rick Brentlinger Answers

(Stables Ministries adds comments in bold)

No, Romans 1:26 does NOT condemn lesbians.
Anti-gay Christians believe Paul is condemning lesbian sexuality in Romans 1:26.

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:" - Romans 1:26

5446 phusikos (foo-see-kos'); from 5449; physical", i.e. (by implication) instinctive: KJV-- natural. Compare 5591.

5591 psuchikos (psoo-khee-kos');from 5590; sensitive, i.e. animate (in distinction on the one hand from 4152, which is the higher or renovated nature; and on the other from 5446, which is the lower or bestial nature): KJV-- natural, sensual.

5449 phusis (foo'-sis); from 5453; growth (by germination or expansion), i.e. (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension, a genus or sort; figuratively, native disposition, constitution or usuage: KJV-- ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).

Translated to English: This states a fact that must not be left out of the meaning a HUMAN by Paul is described to be in original form a “seed/egg” like any plant or animal. As all seeds will grow only into the plant that the seed was from (an apple seed will grow into an apple tree not an orange tree) as Paul continues saying there is a built in guarantee that it will indeed grow into an apple tree and no other tree.

Using Romans 1:18-32 requires the humans (the THEY people) absolutely had to be str8 to start out and remained str8 until adulthood where they did something (turned from GOD to gods). Well we have so much info in history that turning to others gods does not make a person gay. Yet to believe these verses talks about gays then verses 24 & 25 was the point in time as adults that str8s turned gay just after turning to other gods. Verse 26-27 is proof it cannot be about gays because gays were already gay and just no facts showing the 650 million gays today had turned to other gods. THERE ARE TONS of facts showing gays discovered they were gay while still children and that those that were Christian did not turn to other gods. Paul had a pet peeve that is well known. He just hated the fact that the Hebrew “married men” often went to fertility temples to have ritual sex with their sacred male prostitutes. Paul saw fertility temple where ever he went they were everywhere a temple on every corner as it were. Paul was not stupid about real gays, as it seems most pro-gays imply. Nine Greek words is really a lot to describe the gays in those days, Paul had plenty of access to gays. Gays were not rare in Paul’s day. If Paul really wanted to talk about real gays, he could easily do so because they were not scarcest. However, Paul was not interested in talking about gays; he felt a strong compellation to expound on the horrid sex orgies going on in fertility temples. One temple Paul visited had over 1000 temple prostitutes. Finally, verse 28-32 exonerates real gays because real gays in real life do about as opposite as describe in those verses as you can get. They are pillars in communities and they fill health facilities and often are caregivers. Employers often state gays are the best workers and leaders. These are the real facts about gays. It is so disgusting when people pick out one verse in a whole story then make a doctrine of that verse. 26 is just one verse 18-32 is the factual story with the cast selected by GOD not man. Christian all too often eliminate the original cast members and insert new characters at 26-27.

Anti-gay Christians arrive at their false conclusion because of other false beliefs they hold. For example, they believe that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 condemn both gay male and lesbian female relationships (even though females/lesbians are not mentioned in the Leviticus verses).

All too often even gays assert these 2 verses must be pretty much about gays and have to revert to imaginations and guessing and wishing to fill in this exception to the rule that “gay is not sin at all” This wishing and guessing and imagining is what homophobes do with all 14 verses in the anti-gay doctrine. Again, the date of the writing and the place and the reason for that chapter is part of a larger story called”Moses leading the Hebrew to a land filled with Milk and Honey”. FACTs are important concerning the Bible. We just can’t wish whatever seems logical based on today’s ideas. You actually have to read the Bible page by page, Leviticus is a hard book of laws with tough consequences if disobeyed. You got to know many things about those days and this info is easy enough to get so there is not much of an excuse not to apply content to accusations. Again, Hebrew married men often went to male temple prostitutes at the local fertility temples along the way to Canaan. These temples always had their sex ritual orgy rooms too. Using the obviously in today’s world excuses to say many of the Leviticus verses don’t apply. But, there is a rhyme to the reason here and it is again a legal system based on God is a jealous GOD and you should not go to other gods period. But they did play around with other gods. We see this for the nation of Israel it seems they are always going after other gods and God has to spank them and even take their country always from them and not give it back for almost 2000 years. People of God just don’t have a good track record which should help you to understand you ain’t gonna be right on many things and you will be going against God often though of course you think you are not, still the fact is Christians and pre-Christians were always disobeying. So, back to FACTs, there are 13 ways to correctly translate to English the verse(s) in Leviticus. 3 of which would make sense for English readers, but would destroy understandability for Hebrew readers. Those 3 ways can make it in an English sentence sound like yes just man with mankind. This is what makes the verse so deceptive and defies discovery it meaning even to apparently the learned. It can keep it meaning a secret causing many gays even to submit to a lesser acceptance that makes gays under conditions imaged that it was to the Levites, as somehow gays can’t have sex while str8s can. This simply cannot be and should have been know by all gays that there is an absolute here and that is “gay is not sin” so somehow someway there is the answer and it has solid foundation. You can theorize all you like, but when you discover the equation does not work then your theory must be changed or modified. Finally, your theories arrive at a point that matches and works and it is a fact then. The word “man” in Hebrew is not like the word man in English. We have one word for man, but Hebrew has more than one word. For some reason it is just a fact translators do not bring over the word meaning when they come to only one English word to multiple Hebrew/Greek words. This word man actually means, “practicing str8 man” and in the sentence it is saying the “man” was almost if not always a str8 married man. The word abomination absolutely needs to be kept as it is supposed to mean. The Bible is not a book with word evolutions making the Bible a different Bible than it was in its origins. All words and its variances in the entire Bible for the word abomination means and has to include it is acts and worshipping of other gods. It simply cannot mean some hated disgusted thing. The other man was a male temple prostitute (sodomite). This is also confirmed in those days and that indeed Hebrew married men went to these fertility temple for ritual sex with their sodomites. Furthermore “Lev 20:13 1: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (KJV)” is not a passing notion but a very specific edict. Those accusing the person had to cast the stones that would put them to death. So, Christians using this verse admit they defy God in disobedience because when they accuse someone they do not put them to death by their hand throwing stones at them. God relates to us as married to him, he using marriage often to give us example of us and God, meaning we commit adultery if we go to other gods. The “womankind” meaning is at best an adulterous woman. So being described is a str8 married man going to a male temple prostitute is like a married man going to another man’s wife. So, it is not even comparing a gay couple to a str8 couple. In conclusion the other 10 out of those 13 ways that can be correct in English is also correct in the grammar of Hebrew and so very readable and understandable in Hebrew is a man that has at least had sex with a woman sleeping with her then he goes to a male temple prostitute for ritual sex. God especially hates this because it is worshipping other gods.

Anti-gay Christians then assume that since Paul was brought up in the Jewish faith, he must have interpreted Lev 18:22 and 20:13 the same way anti-gay Christians interpret them today, as universal proscriptions of all homosexual behavior, including lesbian behavior.
So when they get to Romans 1:26, they interpret "against nature" to mean lesbianism and nothing but lesbianism. According to their opinion, Paul couldn't possibly have been referring to any of the other "against nature" behaviors I list at this Link.

It never seizes to be an uphill battle to get homophobes to back up anything they say about gays. Assuming Jewish faith in Paul’s day equaled anti-gay is a misleading lie. There are many very interesting stories about real gays in those ancient days that more than shows gays were not that much of an issue. If gays were really such an issue, we would have tons of info of the anti-gay rhetoric of those days. Only those that take the time discover in ancient days there really is a lot about gays, how they married in Jewish customs and much more. What terms were used and that Jesus used a phrase that means gays, as we understand them today. I think Paul was incredibly used of God. The Bible’s New Testament has more of his books than anyone else and really takes up a good part of the NT. How can we turn Paul into an idiot? However, all too often even gays badmouth him and many Christians don’t think he was to keen on woman. This simply again turns the Bible into a mistake, this can’t be. First thoughts should be “I don’t understand this writing Paul has about women”, but Paul was used by God and God didn’t make a mistake about Paul. Seems we love to play games guessing that Paul had a thing against women. This can’t be, it is just we love to interrupt the Bible into our own experiences and word evolution so we miss the teaching from God through Paul. In Romans, it took men and women in those fertility temple sexual orgy rooms. Had nothing to do with gays. The “THEY” people of verse:

Rom 1:20-21 20 …so that “they” are without excuse: 21 Because that, when “they” knew God, “they” glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; (KJV)

were who this story is talking about not gay.

If it does not fit,
you must acquit.

The anti-gay interpretation of Romans 1:26 does not fit the rest of scripture however, since lesbians are never condemned in the Old Testament or anyplace in the New Testament.

LESBIANS/GAYS are not condemned anywhere in the Bible. In around the 12^th century a few powerful Catholic leaders decided it was time to invent a false doctrine to create scandal to purge leaders from high office that did not have the same ideals and they. 12 of the 14 verses were picked out at that time. 100 years later the Protestants adopted that and when Christians came to America they brought a heinous version of it here. In 1850 at a USA clergy convention they discussed 1 Cor 6:9 and all agreed that masturbators as taught had to change or heaven would be empty as all agreed everyone did it. This verse had under gone many transformations over the last 1000 years as was at masterbators would not inherit. They chose to replace masturbators with homosexual because no one would miss them and already 12 verses were being used against gays. In the late 1940s, the actual 2 Greek words were taken out of some modern versions and homosexual inserted, a word not in the Bible. In ancient days at least 9 Greek words could have been used, but Paul chose a word that meant the Hebrew word for sodomite and catamite (male temple prostitute and expensive call boy). In the Bible there are plenty enough lesbian and gay characters all in a positive stance some legally married according to those day’s customs.
Here is an interesting look at Romans 1:26 from Jeramy's helpful website.

"While Romans 1:18-32 is the primary text used from the New Testament by those people who condemn homosexuality, that interpretation has not always been the interpretation of this passage. 
For example, verse 26, which is the only verse in Scripture which is often interpreted today to refer to lesbian sexuality, is often used to round out the beliefs of those who condemn all homosexuality as sin, since all of the other alleged condemnations of homosexuality specifically refer to male-male behavior, linguistically excluding female-female behavior.

Also, does not matter the church or pastor, this verse(s) always has a complete sermon about the depravity of mankind with nothing at all mentioned about gays. It seems pastors can preach a sermon on any verse and slap in any old topic they want to cover. However, they quickly will use that verse to separate out gays when they want to do a sermon against gays. Yes, 100% I believe many verses have multiple uses and are overlaid to mesh together the whole picture of God’s plan. Generally, there are 3 presentations of each Bible subject. One represence the actual history of the event in the details it happened of God’s chosen people the Hebrews. Another, that detail as a representative of the Church and its 2000 year history as a spiritual embodiment of the actual historic events. Then specific to each individual in their personal walk and relationship with Jesus. Sort of a 3 in one story is what the Bible is, plus all the extra things stuffed in the LIVING word of God.

As to the getting specific to female aspect, a detailed in-depth research and study was done to determine was there info in writing about real gays as we would know them today. Again, I stand up for women as equals flat out and period personally, however, history does not do that very well and discovering did Jesus talk about real gays and were there gay marriages in his day written history in a study of 10s of 1000s of documents usually it is the male gay person that is available in writings. Enough though about lesbians are in these studies to know they indeed were there. My suggestion to help better understand lack of equality in researching this info without an extreme effort is explained in the Bible as a curse put on man and woman:

Gen 3:16-19 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (KJV)

“and he shall rule over thee” This as with “work till you sweat with difficulties thrown in” was not in the beginning but came after disobedience of eating that APPLE. We make laws today to keep men in line to respect women. Men just think they are women’s boss this is a 6000-year-old curse that will remain till the Rapture. So finding good info about women take a lot more effort but few seem to take up this effort. I appreciate those that have. It is amazing to learn what they learn God just does not have issues with using women for his Glory. There are some very fantastic stories available. History is full of lesbian heroes as it were.

Looking back at early interpreters of this verse, while some have believed that this verse referred to lesbians (John Chrysostom), many key church leaders have not held this view, such as Clement of Alexandria and Saint Augustine, who believed this to be anal or oral sex between heterosexuals (Brooten, 1985; Miller, 1995).

This is just why doing your own homework is what being a Christian all is about. Many think they are teachers; you can’t be a teacher unless you studied and not just things you agree with. Saint Augustine nearly single-handedly heaped sex guilt on probably all human on Earth after his message got out. He owned a concubine for a while and was very much a riotous liver for a good part of his early life. For the sake of a wealthy woman he sold his concubine and began his journey into creating a sex is sin Church.
One early Christian writer, Anastasios, clearly dismisses the view that Paul was referring to lesbianism in his comments on Romans 1:26:
Clearly they (the females referred to in Romans 1:26) do not go into one another, but rather offer themselves to the men. (Brooten, 1996, p. 337n)

And not just for sex pleasuring, but specifically in ritual orgies in fertility worship.
Augustine continues this line of thought (fairly explicitly):
But if one has relations even with one's wife in a part of the body which was not made for begetting children, such relations are against nature and indecent. In fact, the same apostle earlier said the same thing about women, "For their women exchanged natural relations for those which are against nature."  quoting Romans 1:26 (Marriage and Desire, 20.35)"

Other important history is sex with the wife was to make babies only (first 1000 years of Christianity) sex for love or pleasure legally could be done with a mistress or concubine. Augustine began a shift that would forever make the bi-product of sex to be guilt in many people. I hear often from a broad section of society that after sex they felt dirty and like they did something wrong. Then the 12^th century brought in today’s style of dating and marriages. So many pagans came to Christianity that they brought their fertility marriages customs with them. Soon it became thought as Christian in origin.

Shrine Prostitution

There is however, ONE female sexual practice which IS condemned in the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 23:17-18, which is linked to Gentile idolatry and which perfectly fits Paul’s "against nature" argument.
That sexual practice is female shrine prostitution, using sex to worship Ashtoreth, the fertility goddess consort of the male fire-god Molech.

“Shrine prostitutes” seems a little misleading saying shrine is a word that became popularized with modern version bible which are satan counterfeit bible (see Westcott and Hort they got the modern versions in your hands) The word is FERTILITY Temple. Shrine seems to lessen the severity of the specifics of the sexual natural of the other gods’ temples. A shrine is like a simple a consecrated of hollowed place. By its simple meaning, it can mean church’s alter. It is the very sexual nature of these other gods that is the foundation of the condemnation of gays. Though for many gays the recognition that saying shrine prostitute makes it better that saying homosexual and it is mostly an ME thing of wanting it to be very very clear that the Bible is referring to the many FERTILITY temples in the day of Moses and the day of Paul. Also, what I have seen left out often is reference to Cybele the mother of the gods from about 2 centuries before Paul and for some centuries after Paul.
Qedesha-female shrine prostitutes, are mentioned in Genesis 38:21-22, Deuteronomy 23:17, and Hosea 4:14. It better fits the context of Paul's argument in Romans 1:26 (idolatry) to understand that Paul is referring to the illicit sexual practice of female shrine prostitutes who serviced men than that, suddenly and unaccountably, with no Biblical basis from the Old Testament, Paul injects into his teaching against idolatry, a one verse condemnation of lesbians, (which is unrelated to idolatry) and which is without any basis in the Old Testament.

Gen 38:21 21 Then he asked the men of that place, saying, Where is the harlot, that was openly by the way side? And they said, There was no harlot in this place. (KJV)

6948 qedeshah (ked-ay-shaw'); feminine of 6945; a female devotee (i.e. prostitute): KJV-- harlot, whore.

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

Him can it be me not seeing this verse or connecting it to the list of anti-gay false doctrine. WOW, I am impressed. Heere is an example of just reading a verse and not paying attention to actual word meaning. I remember reading this verse many times, and just assume she was a prostitute after all a woman on the street as describe got to be a ordinary though obliviously important prostitute. See just clicking for the meaning and sure enough the female form of fertility prostitute. Yet all fertility prostitutes are almost if not all designed for men having sex with them in ritual worship. So, as was with this “harlot” men were seeking her.

Hosea 4:14 14 I will not punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor your spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves are separated with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that doth not understand shall fall. (KJV)

2181 zanah (zaw-naw'); a primitive root [highly-fed and therefore wanton]; to commit adultery (usually of the female, and less often of simple fornication, rarely of involuntary ravishment); figuratively, to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of Jehovah):

KJV-- (cause to) commit fornication, X continually, X great, (be an, play the) harlot, (cause to be, play the) whore, (commit, fall to) whoredom, (cause to) go a-whoring, whorish.

Well you got mostly ordinary sexual immorality in this verse but it does also have Harlot “female temple prostitute” too. So, I got 2 additional verses that I think really needed to be in the false anti-gay doctrine. Finally, a representation of Lesbianism is not sin. Like most of the verse used against gays are really about rape, fertility male prostitutes and ritual orgies so is the 2 verses some use to condemn lesbians they also are talking about fertility sexual rites to other gods.

It mentions here the marriage comparison of the people of God as being the spouse of God as I mention much earlier.

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Well, I think Jesus is a good symbol for homosexuality

 

Anonymous 2/14/09

well, I think Jesus is a good symbol
for homosexuality,

Jesus is more than a good symbol and not just for gays, but every human.

 because he was always between men and loves men and had no woman and no kids.

In Jesus’ day women were more property than people. Jesus selecting all men for Apostles did not make him gay or prejudice against women. There are many books some hints Jesus had a woman others hint he had a guy. Jesus is Creator not an orientation. Jesus is with you 24/7 so in your marriages do you tell Jesus wait in the living room while you are with your spouse? We have 2000 years to see how much Jesus loves women as many were mightily used of God. It is man that downgraded women not God. Jesus came with a purpose to save mankind out of sin. He did not come to live an ordinary life as a family man. Relating Jesus to your regular married family man can’t be possible, he came to die and raise back to Heaven. God is not respecters of persons people are. He is with you no matter who you area and saves you is you accept him by faith as the only begotten Son of God.

I was a boy from 14yo and did not believe in Jesus, because I like girls and women and the followers from Jesus were men and not married and had no children.

What a shame that a male could be so paranoid about Jesus hanging out with men that he chose to be his Apostles. However, often str8 men go bananas in a rage when any hint from anyone that he might be gay. Str8 men will quickly fight is called gay. Sad conditioning has made so many Christians have a warped thought pattern after all what an excuse to not believe in Jesus.

I leave the church and came never back.
Haylen hayleatkins@yahoo.com

Again so sad a person left the church based on him thinking Jesus was gay.

If you really believed Jesus could heal "Another anonymous "

Another anonymous  

If you really believed Jesus could heal

Absolutely Jesus can and does heal. He healed me of 3 major physical conditions. 1^st: I was sick with something for over 30 days. Most of that time is was extremely strong flu like condition and such pain worst that I ever had. Christmas Eve on a Indian Reservation it got worse and I still stubborn would not say take me to a hospital. The nearest was 60 miles away. Near midnight I got out of bed and raised my arms asking Jesus to heal me and suddenly instantly a very warm oil like fluid feeling poured onto my head and as it poured down I was healed above and sick below that oil. It reached my wastes and stopped and I was about at the stage of a normal end of a cold all in about 2 minutes. It was a fantastic feeling and the love of the Lord was tremors. Another at this same house on the Indian reservation years later I ate a rotten piece of meat, very stupid as it was spotted with green and I said just cut out that green and cook it really good I will be fine (other choice was to eat intestines which I would not do) well next day I had the worst case of food poisoning and I thought I would die. Again, 60 miles away from hospital and I sitting in an outhouse is unimaginable pain. That out house had no door and faced east. I called on Jesus to heal me and instant out of the north I saw the Holy Spirit pour southward along the hills about a mile away. He got directly east then poured down and when I saw it at my head level though a mile away my body began to tingle all over and my eyes began to flood with tears of God’s love for me, It was an overwhelming love, This last about 3 minutes and took another 5 to settle down. I was healed, that night my lover and I left for home. I drove from 3am to 1 pm stopped at my mom’s then left as it was getting dark. On the freeway the cars coming towards me headlight were bright (just the usual brightness) So hap hazardly almost joking not expecting an answer I asked God to make those headlights not so bright. Suddenly out of the freeway concrete came shadows that reached up to the headlights of every car for 30 minutes until I got off the off ramp near home. Lastly , but first of the 3 was I was watching Pat Robertson’s 700 Club (70s) He said to viewers put hand on pain area, well I was healthy and really had nothing to really do, so I thought hmmm dumb but hey LA smog does case pain and it was heavy that day and I did have smog pain which was normal and typical pretty much often so I placed my hand on my chest and the other towards the TV as he requested. WOW ZAP kaboom, suddenly I felt my chest swell up and from the outside to the center of my chest I felt something rush then it came out and sudden relaxed. Smog totally gone and from that day to this never even a hint of that kind of pain again. I also have many not so dramatic healings as well, so yes I believe Jesus HEALS.

you would ask him to heal you of all your sin,

Sins are acts people do not a disease. When you come to Christ and pray the sinner’s prayer you ask forgiveness of all your sins. These are past present and future sins. We will always sins and it never hurts to ask forgiveness from time to time, those making it a daily ritual close so much of Jesus and why he came to set people free. You can’t be sin free and if you were to say don’t sin you mean Moses’ law and that every jot and title must be obeyed or you are in sin. We never ever keep the Sabbath and this was a forever LAW. (Sabbath is kept in our hearts as we stand faithful to the Lord of the Sabbath Jesus Christ). There are only 14 possible verses the Church uses to condemn gays. These verses were selected 700 years ago for a reason and it was not to condemn gays, but to purge leaders from power by making a scandal. To say gay is sin means you need to produce Bible words and phrases that really talk about gays and not gang rapists and temple prostitutes.

the spirit of homosexuality is an unclean spirit.

If this was that simple there would be no gays as every Christian can rebuke unclean spirits. What more homophobes have no excuse for if they say the gay person wants the unclean spirit so that’s why they don’t come out when another Christian commands it not Bible, the Bible says the demon does come out but returns with 7 worse demons so you would get absolute proof that gay is sin because you cast out that demon and later he brought 7 worst ones so you would see a 7 times worse behavior out of those gays you cast out unclean spirits. A simple process never used by homophobes. Bob Larson once asked me to come to his ministry so he could cast out demons from me. When I said that he can be free as a bird to do whatever he likes as long as he needs to me over me at me or at the demons or whatever, then it will be my turn to minister to him the word of God and in the power of the Holy Spirit. In this way we can assure all his TV viewers and others that he did what he claims which has become the foundation of his ministry or that God is with me and God will stand by me as I speak in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is my challenge to any homophobe. Let’s gather together under a pastor and seek God your church first to do all you know in Christ Jesus, then you allow me to do what I know in the Lord Jesus. God will move. I will cheat because I already know the results. Gay is not sin and Jesus is not asking the gay person to change and be str8.

It defiles your body.

650 million gays in the world please I beg you to start the parade of gays. Defiled bodies are not invisible. Romans 1:28-32 is very much something people can easily see so these 600 million gays in the world you should be able to get tons of them or tons of documentation of this evilness you are claiming as defiling their bodies. There are huge numbers of gay Christians and a Christian is unique because they have a personal walk with Jesus one on one 24/7so they have a testimony to go through to have a reality check on your claim of defiled body.

If you really asked the Holy Spirit for revelation on this I believe that He would show you why you were created perfectly male, with reproductive parts to procreate and bring you a wife and children.

Not to boast but I cannot close my eyes to sleep without being drawn up in a vision. Extraordinary things God shows me in visions, and he send me people with firsthand knowledge about coming events and past events. When I accepted Jesus my 1^st prayer was to show me the fact that if gay is sin that is really is sin. Because Christians it was well known to just say God hates gays and the Bible condemned gays. One does not come to Christ to follow after lies. Homophobes seem to love the lie that gays justify their gayness. Gays come to Christ because Jesus is the truth and the way and the life. They do not come to Jesus to be a con artist. They study; they do not go off to false doctrines and find those that have some sort of cultic guruish spiritualism. I  have been in the Assemblies of God for 35 years hardy a denomination to go out on a limb with a strange new false doctrine. Tons of gay sites on the web you can go look at the detail many gay Christian have gotten in researching facts and history. You get source info dates and so much about Hebrew/Greek. When you go to a homophobic website you do not get any of this, you just get wonderings as in a game to play with souls trying to find what unrelated verses can be added to assumed meanings which have no backbone. So many lies about gays. It is as though these homophobes thinks gays will suddenly see the light because hey look every human in Sodom cam to rape to death 2 angel even a baby knows this means gay is sin. What do you think is this how you want to present your message to gays. Gang rape means gay is sin, 600 million gays you just are not going to get them to think because you say they are gang rapist that they are gang rapist. Sodomite is another one, it means male temple prostitute. Well the 600 million gays are not buying that one, They know for a fact they do not belong to a fertility temple and are selling their bodies to str8 men. So if yo got so much revelation that gay is sin share this info. When God shows me something in a vision he backs it up with strong facts that are confirming things are going to happen. Other things God shows me that I don’t have any facts or other helpful back up I tone down or don’t mention it as it is useful for me alone for a blessing of faith to God’s revelation to me. Seems to me that homophobe act of how they feel and they feel str8 sex is awesome and they feel gay sex is disgusting. Well this is not how you decide gay is sin. Str8 means you don’t want gay sex so leave it at that why do you have to say God hates gay sex. You are very wrong again as I have said 600 million gays out there and a lot are Christians and God is as much with them as he is with you and you cannot do anything about it except figure out that you need to find out why if gay is sin God gives such blessings to gays and is so loving and caring (besides all the usual valleys all Christians go through gays are not immune to valleys, but valleys are not punishment they are lessons)

 He would completely heal you!

January 27, 1974 at 9:45 pm at Hawthorne Memorial Hall at a Doug Clarke prophesy rally I got completely healed. All these years later even though my ministry is directed at homophobes so I get a huge number of bashing Jesus keeps me and has answered 1000s of prayers and healed me physically. Homophobes hate gay testimonies because it contradicts what the homophobes thinks it should be. Homophobes don’t want to hear how much God blesses gays so they ban gays from  any sort of testimony time in church so you never ever get to hear gay testimony, what a shame you have to go through life thinking your brothers and sisters in Christ are living is sin as you are charging them, when in fact they are innocent and that those charges will one day be placed on your shoulders to bare.

Brant Baker "Former Homosexual" Give me a break

Anonymous said...

I attended several services in the late 1970s where Brant was the visiting evangelist at Jerry Bernard's Christian Faith Center in San Diego. During the altar call, Brant was so engulfed with the Holy Spirit that he had to have 2 men hold him up while he went from person to person praying for them. Everyone was slain in the Spirit before he could even touch them, and that included me. 

It was well known at that time that Brant was a "former" homosexual. I was also told that he had been engaged to a woman, but the engagement broke off before the wedding took place.

Anonymous said...

I attended several services in the late 1970s where Brant was the visiting evangelist at Jerry Bernard's Christian Faith Center in San Diego.

I attended many of Brant Baker’s healing rallies as well. Jerry Bernard http://daytonaicc.com/site/ was one of my favorite ministers for years as he hosted TBN often. Attending a service or healing rally does not mean you have done any research to find out the facts about Brant. There are websites devoted to Brant’s ministry.

 During the altar call, Brant was so engulfed with the Holy Spirit that he had to have 2 men hold him up while he went from person to person praying for them. Everyone was slain in the Spirit before he could even touch them, and that included me. 

Indeed Brant was called to do mighty works in the Lord Jesus Christ. No details about the above service is given so ones must assume Brant was quite the man of God to have such a move of the Holy Spirit. Nothing to disagree with because I know this by personal observation of his services.

It was well known at that time that Brant was a "former" homosexual.

FORMER implies an expert observation over a great long period of time. Actually there is no such thing as a former homosexual. There are bisexuals which indeed create quite a stir concerning deliverance. However, even bisexual are not changed to str8, they can live a great longer period pretending to be str8 while their testimonies and new spouse’s testimonies shows a never ending struggling to maintain this so called deliverance. If delivered then the struggle ends because if not str8 anymore you would have the hots for the opposite sex like any other str8. Now I read a lot about Brant’s last days and his last days was not that of a delivered homosexual. In fact he was much more relaxed to be himself and not be concerned what other thought. When stating terms like “former” you really need to back up what you say as statements verse real life often won’t match. It was not even 1980 yet and absolutely for sure there was no real roll models or quickly available materials concerning gays. All that was in place was a 700 yr anti-gay doctrine using 14 verses. Those verse were set into a doctrine to create scandal to purge powerful leader that did not agree with the main ideals. Those verses are talking about gang rape and male temple prostitutes and not gays. It is amazing in 2009 a Christian can even state delivered when talking about an era when gays had  no sources of Bible fact or history to study. Also this was an age (1970s) that if you were a popular minister you had better tote the line or exactly what happened to Brant would happen to you. Paul Crouch erased Brant from the Christian record as soon as he learn Brant had aids. Only the last couple of years has anyone begun to revive the truth about Brant and his fantastic call from God. Brant and Lonnie Frisbee started a wonderful new age in Christianity that the Church adopted as its own. Benny Hinn replaced Brant at Paul Crouch’s desire to fill that emptied post.

I was also told that he had been engaged to a woman, but the engagement broke off before the wedding took place.

Rumors should be backed at least a little. Being told in the late 1970s that a former homosexual was engaged to an opposite sex was an easy scapegoat. Again, the 70s and 80s was a hey day for homophobes to present their pet bisexual weirdo to try to prove gays get delivered. They never follow up or present anything in the way of background, you have to do your homework to get to the root of how that bisexual got to the point to marry. It made me disgustedly sick to watch and hear these so called delivered gays. They were so pathetic. Funny a world with 600 million gays and all that homophobes could do is bring a mutant as a proof gays change to str8. You do not use the desperately sick person as an example of deliverance. Brant was not a mutant, aids was real horror and the church hated gays intently. Not a good setting for any human to be in.  Brant today would have a million sites to go to find out about real Bible gays and gay history and Hebrew/Greek meaning of Bible words. He would not have to rely on established pastors as a guide to understanding difficult issues. Today Brant could stand up and continue his healing ministry. Yet he fulfilled what he was sent to do. He though dead is embolding many Pentecostal gays today to prepare to openly stand up as called of God Faith Healers.

 

Jared McCormick alcoholic homophobe

From: Jared McCormick [mailto:mccormick.jl@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:39 PM
To: stablesministries@gays4jesus.com

Subject: Contact The Stables Ministries for any reason

I must mention first, before I go on, to point at the elephant in the room and to let you know where I stand on the homosexual issue.  First of all, we are all born to sin.  Some or a lot of these sins are so etched in to our beings that we enter the world born with predispositions or proneness to sin. 

Homophobes has a first priority that is to emphasize elementary roots as though everyone that may be idiots on the Bible. When we accept Jesus, we commit our lives to Jesus. It completely has to be assumed when talking to Christians that we have no place to try to say they are not Christians and the fundamental core of Christianity is this type prayer:

God be merciful to me a sinner! I believe Christ died on the Cross for me, that God rose him on the 3rd day, and that His Precious Blood will cleanse me from all my sins. Forgive me of my sins and come into my heart as my Lord and my Savior. Help me Lord to do thy will each day. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.

So always, the sin issue though basic is already at the heart of believers. Spending time on these issues is not what Jesus is all about. Jesus is about getting the SALVATION message to the lost. Homophobes just love grinding sins into innocent people’s face. Instead of joyous walk with Christ, they portray and God that wants obedience to rules that often are man’s will. In talking with homophobes, you will not learn about the coming days which mean antichrist’s kingdom is at hand and will affect all Christians sinning or not sinning. Yes all humans are sinning right away, but in context to a homophobe telling a gay person this it is meant to state it is the being gay that is sin or the practicing it is and the statements to the fact “all are sinners” is a mute issue in the conversation. It is not in the homophobes’ interest to hear testimony of gays. Their point is always gays are going to hell and all homophobes will do is use anything that make this clear.

That being said,homosexual conduct is certainly a sin.  There is absolutely no way  to deny that fact. 

“Certain”? Again, homophobes will never produce this “certainty” by explain any word, phrase, or verse in the Bible. Fact? How it is fact if a homophobe refuses to explain how they got this fact and where and what is it. There are 14 verses only to explain and seven of them use the same word which makes it even easier to get the facts and yet no info or explanation is ever given beyond stating “it’s in the Bible”, God hates it”, “it’s clear”, or some other non-descriptive phrase..

I cannot tell nor can anyone for certain if we are born gay or acquire the "taste" for it later on in life.  I hold the opinion some are born with homosexual tendencies that can easily be exploited more than a "natural born" heterosexual.

Homophobes by now have significant facts available to know gays are born gay. 650 million gays in the world this just is not a simple way to make being gay a choice. The reason homophobes do not want gays to be born that way it would cause more difficult to explain gay to be sin. There is so much info on this topic that the subject of born gay should be a stumbling block for homophobes if the venture to use it. Homophobes will never produce their studies or other expert studies on gays from their birth to adulthood. There are so many such studies on this . My person research and interviews to the tune of 10s, of 1000s of gays probably much more than this is gays discover they are gay starting around 5 years old, it usually takes to 8 or 9 to begin to get a grip on this awareness at 5 is they are gay. By 11 -13 most gays are very much aware they are gay and even date same sex. Rare is an adult as many wish seduced them. “exploited more than a "natural born" heterosexual” what is this suppose to mean? Real str8s would rather die that have a remote chance a gay would touch them. Your first response would be beat up the gay person that may try to seduce you not make love to him. How do you seduce a horny str8 man? So many of you are in fact having a fantasy that you can go to bed with 2 lesbians as though a gay woman would really go to bed with a str8 man, you need a bisexual woman for that. Natural born gays, Jesus calls “born eunuchs” which with study and research in ancient writings of Jesus’ day you will find “born eunuchs are gays. This is not something to wish or hope to be true but can be proven with the 10s of 1000s of writings related to this topic of that day to show these were gays.

I am an alcoholic.  I believe that I have inherited this trait, and exploited it.  I have to face this issue every waking day of my life to drink or not to drink.  I have to make a strong conscience effort to refuse.  It is not easy.  I try to do it so that I may be able to glorify God through submission, faith and obedience.

No such thing as inherited “alcoholic” this trait is not item orientated but is most likely an overall trait for lack of better word to a condition that will lead likely to a dependence on something we would call use abuse of that item. Being an “alcoholic” has nothing to do with being gay. It is a common way many homophobe think about gays. They assume it is nothing more than an addiction. This can be said of str8s, you are addicted to opposite sex. This sounds silly doesn’t it? Sexual orientation is just that, if you are str8 you will be attracted to the opposite sex period. Likewise for gays, Comparing gays to some sort of abuse is a main core value of homophobes in general.

What I don't do, is try and make a church gathering where it is OK to be a drunk.  The bible explicitly states that drunkenness is an abomination to God.

Also, in a church setting you do not make love to your spouse do you? Drunkenness is your problem so why are you using your problem to condemn gays? And yes many str8s do go to church drunk, fortunately not all at one church.

I have no doubt that you are saved.  I believe you are.  But if you are living a life that goes against the institution of marriage that was set up by God, you are living in sin. 

What is the institution of marriage to you and what is it in the Bible and what is it in Christian culture for the last 2000 years and what is it in the many cultures in the world? Marriage started out being unwed brother and sisters having sex and babies, it evolved to cousins then distant cousins in the same tribe. You could have hundreds of wives and hundreds of concubines. Marriages was a business transaction between two families more of human history even many places today. Gays did in fact marry in this way in Jesus’ and Moses’ day. St Augustine owned a concubine which he sold to marry a wealthy high class woman, then he began to install strict sex laws in the church. In the 12^th century so many pagans came to Jesus as a result they brought with them their marriage custom which soon was adopted church wide and in fact worldwide secularly too. This custom intended for pagan fertility rituals to gods and goddesses brought to the world and Christianity dating and marrying by mainly your selection and for love. 1000 years of Christianity was sex with your spouse was to produce a baby, for love you got a mistress and for pleasure, you bought a concubine both Christian legal in those days. Today 10 states and many countries accept gay marriage or something very similar. God says what HE joins together let not man put asunder. Gays do not go against it they embrace it as any str8 couple.

God will not work through you if you remain in this sinful condition with blatant rebellion against the infallible word of God.

At what point will this prophecy of yours happen? I am 62.5 years old with my lover for 20 years. I accepted Jesus Jan. 27, 1974 at 9:45 pm. My church is the Assemblies of God. I have preached on TV for 24 years every week re-running the program at least one more time a week. I just returned from Italy where I shot 12 TV programs. I am Pentecostal speaking in tongues often. At least one person in every country in the world has seen my programs, I got pastors in many countries begging me to come preach (these are str8 pastors). Online I chat parents pop up often for my advice about bring up junior in Christ Jesus. Dating couples (str8) also come to me regulating on how they might live their lives for Jesus as single Christians falling in love. I have had 3 major physical healing and un countable miracles and answered prayers. Str8 pastors seem to have to call me to the alter so they can prophesy over me. So tell me when as you are telling will God not work though me?

What I am trying to say is, being gay certainly does not condemn you to hell.  The practice of homosexual acts without repentance is the sin that will kill.  If you do not properly repent your sins, Christ's blood is unable to wash you, because you did not give them to him, you kept them for yourself.

Missing from any of your writing is any info about how you got gays condemned in the Bible so far it just seems to be you wishing it was there. I get closer to Jesus every day. 62 is getting pretty old I think since I accepted Jesus when I was 27. Tell me why is it getting better? In my place of work a very large company I manage the store. It is a large chain we have over 150 people often I am the only person in charge, I guess this is life getting worse for me. I owe nothing own my house cars new and paid off and the economy will have to really do a total dive to effect my retirement. I am a nobody, not real talents it often seems strange I have such a responsible job. What I do know it happens because I asked God in Jesus name and he gave it to me in the way I asked for it. I am often wondering do people around me just know what I want and need so when I get to them they are handing it to me? I guess you would tell me satan is giving me these things .AND about WASHING part of my ministry is to tell Christians a great shaking (spanking) is about to happen. It will last 1260 days. During this period is the time that Christian get the BLOOD painted on their door Posts and Mantles. Around 3.5 billion people will be killed during that period and you could very likely be in that number after all you got a 50 50 chance. This time has to come before Jesus returns and Christians just are not ready. I go into detail on this in other writings and TV programs.

I'm in the same boat, only my "sin of choice" is more socially, and "churchly" accepted.  I have to stay away from the abomination, not be drunk,

So you think your past drunkenness gives you expertise on gays? So much incorrect methods for people like you to dry up. People like you have to rely of 12 steps and a life time commitment to those principles and admitted they do not give God the Glory they give gods the glory and if your god is GOD it is just that and others have their gods. My sister’s husband spent many years in AAA it really does not matter if you depend of Church help, most people like you are often ordered to AAA. Jesus delivers so why did you have a problem? I use to drink as part of a partying thing as such. I never had problems though I had lots of friends and fun and stories to tell, never had any real problems be it lucky, blessed or whatever. Made a new year’s resolution to stop because hanger overs weren’t a fun experience. 3 weeks later I accepted Jesus 36 years later from the get go never had any hint of wanting to drink, sorry it was difficult for you what was it did Jesus not love you or do you have a justification why he allowed you to take so long to stop or do you still have a problem today? This is an abuse problem not a sexual orientation issue. Don’t use your condition to imply gay is all the more sin.

but be filled with the holy spirit.  Scripture is clear that drunkenness is the opposite of Holiness.  Satan works in an opposite fashion from God.  Some ways on the surface, it appears to be like or the same as God's Word, but is "anti-Christ."

I had not a drop of “alcoholic” drink in all my salvation years. However, for me drinking is not the issue for many, why are you making it a point? I have 36 years in the Assemblies of God, I speak in tongues often and am told often by pastors and Christians they see Jesus in me and sense the Holy Spirit in me. There is not a moment of my waking day that I don’t feel the Holy Spirit in me. And when I sleep I am in visions most of the time. At any moment day or night, I can get direct response from Jesus, either by his emotions, or words he speaks to me or his presence I can feel. Anytime I write of do ministry I feel him looking over my shoulder and if I am getting really involved in a topic where I need to present authority then the presence of the Lord magnifies throughout my body and I feel like I will float and every pour in my body tingles with his presence. I can go into detail for long hours on this topic about Jesus and me. Anytime you like I challenge you or anyone to just try to say it is not Jesus. So often a way out for homophobes when they hear Jesus is in gays is to say it is not Jesus it is satan. Think about it if you are so quick to say it is satan not Jesus what do you suppose Jesus will do during the coming shaking? I know for a fact time homophobes want to face up to my challenge which is specific and on my website, that they will never be able to get God to move showing gay is sin no matter what they do or how long the attempt doing it. This is meaning according to your faith to present the word and or operations in the Holy Spirit to get a hold of God to move in our mist to show you are right and I am wrong. However, when you are done and it is my turn to do likewise it will not take very long before you see God move in my favor. Pretty str8 forward I think. For you how can you lose you believe you are right so how could God stand up for me in your congregation’s sight? You think it is satan use your God given authority and get rid of him. Worst can happen for a moment I am clean and soon 7 worse demons comes so you will get your proof. I am 100% committed to let you behave your faith then it is my turn that you let me 100% behave my faith. Upfront I have told you I have 36 years in the Assemblies of God so no surprises for you to think I might go weird on you.

Just the same, The marriage institution was ordained by God where Man and Woman are designed to complement one another.  Man/Man Woman/Woman is opposite of this holy covenant designed by the creator of the universe.  Like I mentioned before, if it is opposite of God's will, then it is an abomination.  There is no possible way of getting around that.

The Bible is not one or two verses but a very in-depth book on many topics. “Abomination” is a word that in every use means acts done while worshipping other gods so you use a poor selection or a word to portray you hatred of gays. Marriage is a evolution based on population. God does not condemn the growth of marriage customs and changes over the centuries. Marriage would be a sin as it is preformed today because it has no resemblance to Jesus‘day marriages. There are 2 direct Hebrew legal gay marriage in the OT and many hidden in grammar and Hebrew/Greek words that do not mean the same in the English we read it in as it does in its original language form. Making a statement “there is no possible way around it” is the same as stating “it in the Bible” you just avoid saying where and how you get that final interpretation. Using the term “holy covenant” puts you into a possible weird Christian cult or and need no pastor or church or other s to fellowship with Christian. This means you believe you are right and everyone else is wrong if it is not what you believe. After talking at length with strong homophobes often it turns out they actually believe only they are saved and anyone not believing like them will go to hell, so all denomination because what you are in which may be none will go to hell o r some variety then in. You got this idea a part A needs a part B otherwise, it is sin. Between your legs is speak not your brain. Your brain would say maybe something is wrong with what is between my legs because today there are 650 million gays and it seems to work just fine with them. When you philosophize about the universe you have to remember where did you get all these smarts when there are millions of high tech educated scientist and more and everyone has a good theory. The more you know the more you will know that all is not so simple to explain away. Every time a good theory comes to be, they soon discover in finding this wonderful theory they created 10 more questions that the theory is not addressing so they create a theory to cover those, then each creating more questions. Point is we got a billion philosophers and philosophy is not fact just helps grasp ideas as to what could be the solutions. Me being 62 years has to mean I have plenty of theories about thing we don’t have facts on, I know a few things so I love going deep into the details of how it might be, but ready to change the equation when facts are added. In you writing you are not adding any fact concerning the 14 verses in the Bible that homophobes use. All you are doing is assuming gay is sin and go on from there into your life’s perspectives, which seems to be of an “alcoholic”. Hey, you are the drunk. I drank but is was not a lot more than entertainment, sorry it turned out badly for you, but you are the drunk don’t forget that. You also no doubt believe the AAA rhetoric of “if you drink your need AAA”. Sorry Jesus is my God and the Bible is the Living Word of God. AAA is man created worship to gods in the name of doing good. Hey, yes great, You needed the help. Please don’t think drug addicts and drunkards and rapists and murderers and prostitutes is a way to preach to gays. Gays need to know Jesus does not hate them since this is your mouth. Jesus says who so ever. So why not let who so ever then?

I'm certain this is no surprising shock to you, as you mentioned you have a zeal for truth and knowledge.  I haven't read anything on your website that could somehow truthfully refute the biblical  stance on the institution of marriage and homosexuality.  I will look, but you must have some sort of strong evidence that I have been unable to come up with.

This is always amazing to hear. A homophobe can read

6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.

6942 qadash (kaw-dash'); a primitive root; to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): KJV-- appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied oneself,), X wholly. 6943 Qedesh (keh'-desh); from 6942; a sanctum; Kedesh, the name of four places in Palestine: KJV-- Kedesh.

This is the key word in 7 of the 14 verses people use to say gay is sin.

And say I show nothing? I also have gone over the marriage history in my website and even touched on it hear. I also have links right on my home page to a site that goes into deep detail with documentation on just about all topics of this issue. Tell me how you cannot see anything. History is a done deal and the bible does indeed show the evolution of marriages and also gay marriages. On my site and in links there is substancial backing with the documentation. Hebrew is a language and has its grammar. This is Bible days so it is Bible days you need to go to get the day’s current usage and meanings. Hebrew and Greek today have evolved. In Jesus’ day Hebrew was meticulously maintained by scribes so it was the perfect time for God’s word to be established. Greek was at a point that translation to Latin Vulgate in the 2^nd century made it the most reliable studiable book in the world. Today many words in Greek and Hebrew are not recognizable to 1^st century people of those languages. The Bible has quite a history and generally God’s enemies actually got the Bible together in a book we call the Bible today. Really amazing how God actually used horrible people in so many ways that went on the pretty much control the world today to be the ones to put it together. It is fabulous it was translated to Latin Vulgate in the 2^nd century so that what ever was chosen in the 3^rd century would still be the exact 2^nd century manuscripts so nothing lost except other books that were also just as good and could have been used as God’s word. Also, in that 2^nd century another set of books I call them counterfeit were translating intact into Latin Vulgate. This version was not used till the 15^th century when it became the official Catholic Bible. Later in the 18^th Westcott and Hort used that corrupt version to translated to Greek then back to English and this became the official Church of England Bible which all modern version comes from today having 50,000 to 80,000 corruptions depending of the version. Granite I am not one to give out the documentation of what I learn over the years, these detailed record are just not me. Thank God for all the people that have the sort of God given patience to detail documentation of what the research. Today and for most of the time str8s spent lots of time killing babies, Christians had a common thing for much of its history lots of documentation of tossing their babies (leaving them on church door step) the pill is for Christians to have sex without babies. So much facts exist about your words that would have to mean most str8 Christians are in constant major disobedience to God. Well fact is very close to truth. That is why all things are set up to again spank God’s people (SOON!). Another story I will not get into here.

And finally, just for the record, I am not some sort of bigot. 

Yes you are a bigot down to the core, sorry but that is your writings. Had you not been a bigot you would have been able to tell me about the many things real gays do in the world from the beginning. You would have had a ton of stories to tell about ordinary gays today. But all you had to say was gays are alcoholics and referring to your philosophy what you think things are. Bigots are people that pick out a group to condemn and cannot produce any sort of a foundation. In your case, you did not even refer to any of the 14 verses used by homophobes. It is these verses you need to show is talking about real gays to make your case. But instead we had to deal with your drinking problem and the horrid concept that you have that gays are like drunkards addicted to same sex.

I prayerfully practice Godly love to everyone (or try to, there are some difficult people, but we are far from divine). 

First impression for me is your prayers of Godly love is say God make every one like me and do as I do and believe as I. I don’t want to have to prove anything just make them believe me when I tell them they are living in sin. Even is you defensive quotation marks you are trying to think you are doing the best and right thing. It is the homophobe you should prayer for. Ask God meaningfully to show you what the 14 verses mean. Please this is not meaning you get a vision of magic of Jesus tossing gays into the Lake of Fire. God is truth so therefore truth is something to be presented. Faith is what to believe, we believe at first by Faith the Jesus is the Son of God. But the word sodomite in Hebrew means male temple prostitute, no faith needed it is just pure FACT. The there is the temples these prostitutes worked from and so much more. I just preached from the temple of Cybele (mother of the gods) in Rome 3 weeks ago. I do my homework I went to that temple it is real it is there and it has a history. What do you do you do nothing except say gay is sin. Type Cybele in to Google, this is the sort of temple Paul saw every time he looked out his window or walked around Rome. (Paul was under house arrest and most the time had to stay in his rented house). This was the same in Corinth, where Paul even went to speak in a temple in that city and it had over 1000 temple prostitutes along with that statue to the unknown god he used in a later book. Please give me truth and the facts. Don’t use modern lingual “institution of marriage” marriage evolves and God does not condemns any f its evolutions from the Garden. He did once say he did want divorce but for Moses’ sake, he allowed divorce to be legal. Techniquely you commit adultery but God accepted and allowed divorce which meant your spouse was like dead so you could re-marry. Put away in the Bible means today “separation” separation is not divorce so adultery happens if you have someone. Yes we are not divine we are forgiven., this does not imply your pet hatred of specific sins someone else commits. It is every Christian is forgiven the same. No special treatment. You can not go around picking out things you want to be sins to make them worse than the real daily sins you are currently committing. Love is a behavior and hate is a visible thing people can see and when you accuse an innocent person of something and you do even try to show truth then it is hate you are behaving. You can wish it to be love all you want but condemning someone for something you think is a sin but you would never even take any first steps to show how you yet your conclusions then it is hate behavior and not love you behave. Stating you are loving someone is not actually loving them, Loving someone is taking the time to get the fact. I spent a lot of time on you going far more than I need to for a person like yourself that just may never ever be able to see a gay person is not going to fertility orgies houses of worship. I did not get the info I have by wishing it to be true, but long years and much reading and also I know who gays are and how they live and they are not living like you are saying they are when you use a Bable verse to condemn them.

I have a gay uncle and love him just the same as any of my other uncles (to which I have 10, and he happens to be one of my favorites :)) 

So your love for him is telling him he is living in sin. Let’s test your love, give me his email so I can send him your email to me. You are telling me he is not allowed to marry per God and he is living in sin. So your favorite uncle you show him this sort of love? What’s more this means you are two faced liar by telling me I am living in sin but not going to him and going into at least as much as you did with me telling me gay is sin. If marriage finally got legal in your state and he invited to his wedding with his lover would you go? (maybe like many gays he is believing gay is sin after all gays grow up in the same world that conditioned you hate gays so he would also as many gays do think yes everyone says “its in the Bible “too and so think it sin) truth sets one free and today finally the truth is easy to get and so marriages for gays are becoming legal everywhere these days. Why are you not seeking truth. Parents of gays often take the time to study and learn they are not losing their gay child as they were taught by their pastor. Yow say he is your favorite, WOW what you are actually saying what is the norm for gays around the world, the good is seen about them. Gays are most often the best employees, they provide the most in healthcare system and are often pillars in their families. You confirm this because out od all your uncles he is the best. Are you tell me str8 uncle are not as fun or not as caring are won’t pay as much attention to you? Something made you say he was your favorite. The way you write to me I would have assume you would be trying to get him to change and be str8 and think he is the worst that God would not work with him, yet you love him as your favorite. Pretty deep do do I think.

I do believe we all have sins that we must overcome through the redemptive power of Jesus Christ's blood. 

NEVER EVER will we overcome out sins; Jesus paid the price for all our sins. Once you think you are not a sinner saved by Grace then you are toast. The coming deceptions will pry at your lack of foundation truths. When we accept Jesus we do a 180 degree turn, but from then on it is a winding road. Each of us takes a journey, the way to that day we will see Jesus face to face is not a str8 road. There are hilltops and valleys and windy rivers and barriers to go around. Pain, happiness follows us sometime more than at other times. We must holdfast, standfast and persevere to the end. No short cuts no quick and simple solutions. Worse things than you can imagine are just over the horizon. So many think Obama brings hope. (I voted for him) but Obama is a special instrument planted to make it look like he can turn the tide, but in fact we gave him a green light to pay for a massive final building spree for the concentration like camps. Darfur is Disneyland compared to the coming days in the USA. Modern versions are conditioning Christians to accept antichrist thinking he might be Jesus after all. Even my Church I belong to has nearly changed over to modern versions, which is about as far from its roots as one can get. So hard to accept AOGs not thinking the KJV is God’s word as they once did. Now the pastor uses what ever version best fits his sermon. You will get to know the real meaning of overcoming through the redemptive power soon as you are not by choice force to live it. You would never choose it because it will be so hard. There is more to the meaning in the Power of the Blood than you are implying. You are using it as a dirty word aimed at gays. Remember you are talking about gays not philosophizing on general church. So your words are attacks on gays as any one would attack a minority they hate.

I know it must be very difficult to accept, and something that is impossible to walk away from.  Christ is the only avenue of approach that does make this impossible feat possible.

Think about it, I am a openingly gay TV preacher now in my 24^th year on TV. I am Pentecostal. I have had some 800,000 homophobe attacking through the years. Do you think that I thought I could accomplish facing Christians bent on condemning someone to hell all these years and still have a pretty good life. You can’t possible image how homophobes claiming they are Christians are in attacking with the worst of words and flat out constantly telling I am going to hell comparing me the worst of human behaviors daily yet I am peaceful in my heart and close to Jesus and life treats me well, my house hold is blessed and traveling around the world and the economy is not effecting me. By rights I should be bananas, but I am not. Impossible, could not imagine I would ever be on TV, I am so shy how could I speak even. Impossible impossible and yet I am now in my 24^th year on TV I take it for granite. I know noting about webpage design and yet I have a well working website. I ran a 6 line BBS in the early days before the web, it was a local area but I always had at least 1000 members signed on. Impossible. So many impossible things happened to me. And yet more difficult impossible things are coming I can’t see how it could happen, but I believe it will. But you are perhaps thinking about ex-gays that God delievers gays, this would mean you could check history and go to ex-gay ministry and churches to see if this happens in real life, it sure is wished and talking about by homophobes, but real life it does not pan out so telling a gay person he can change and be str8 is a liar from hell. I person research over 200 ex-gay ministries and talked with lots of their leaders in-depth and have over 100 ex-gay leader testimonies. They did not get delivered at all and follow up on these leaders and gays that went through these misnistres there just are no ex-gays, bisexuals are a different animal and often are considered as gay and used by homophobes to make their points. Bisexuals are a strange breed of human and can be the worst homophobes but ultimately they fall into real life facts, they are bisexual not str8 so at some point 20 even 30 years down the road they come back with testimonies of them returning to their gay or bisexual life. No reports of anyone really changing some do live out life in a marriage with problems over this, but none really change. Christians do brain wash people to act on your faith no matter what the truth might be. Stating some is because you are by faith stating it into existence can be a good thing and a right tool promised by God we can use. But abusing tools God gives us is not the right thing. So many gays state they are delivered as a matter of faith not fact. I talk to 1000s of these and it does not take that many questions to unveil they have not changed they are in denial and just speaking out as though they are changed. What is not possible is possible for God does not make possible something that is not right. Gay is not sin and Jesus is not asking the gay person to change and be str8.

If you wish to follow God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, then you must abandon your current lifestyle.

Lets test your thought about this. From this moment on in your love for gays I want you to stop being str8 for the sake of gays. Do not look at a woman sexually, if you are married no sex in fact move out. From now on female are to be sisters not anything for sex attraction. Also since you are asking 650 million gays to do this not just me, you do not know me so your talk to me is in proxy to 650 million gays I want you to ask many of your str8 friend to join you in avoiding all sex or any possible notion of attraction to opposite sex. Come back to me in a year and show me all you str8s managed to live without sexual attraction to opposite sex or thoughts of same. Don’t masturbate to thought of women either. Big issue here is I already told you of my 100% commitment to God and Jesus Christ and parts of my testimony of things following. If you will stop sex 100% as well to follow God then do so but, remember it is not me you are talking to but all gays so you will need to involve your church in getting a large number to commit to no sex. When you see str8s cannot do this then ask yourself why are you asking gays to stop sex if str8s can’t do the same.

I will humbly pray for you every day,

This is a joke. Humbly who do you think you are? You behave hate to gays, you do not explain even the smallest thing concerning yourself and you belief that gay is sin. You never touch any of the 14 verses, you used your addiction to alcohol to use as an example to condemn gay and you are telling me you humbly? It is your personal desire to justify your own additions and push it onto innocent people. Sorry I don’t see you as a person that can humbly do anything. Pray in tongues about gays in that way you will have the Holy Spirit making intercessory prayer for gays. Then when you see more states legalizing marriage remember you operated in the Holy Spirit so be thankful your intercessory prayers were heard. You want what you want not what God wants. God wants gays to be able to enjoy all the legalality str8s have in marriages. 700 years the church took any such dignity away from gays, Don’t get upset about God giving it back to gays. Don’t give satan credit for something that is not evil. Our presidents are evil they are planning your future incarceration just for being Christian. Yet I bet you pray for then for God to help them. But, homophobes does not care about what they don’t see. Their lives will be so affected by the coming changes and you hardly will spend a moment preparing for what is coming. Not much you can do about it except keep in mind things do in fact need to happen before Jesus returns even before the Rapture. It won’t be a pretty picture. You are so busy worrying about another’s life that you don’t see that soon they will knock on your door and maybe rape your wife in front of you and whoa if you have a daughter for the had complete freedom to rape her too. This is not an imagination but real plans and schedules. There are enough camps to house 40 million Americans today. Str8 troops will do their thing and that is rape. This time it is welcomed by their commanders. There are more than 6 million foreign troops in our country and in adjacent countries ready awaiting orders to move in. Obama just approved lots of money to get these camps ready and out of moth balls. Evil is here and you want innocent gays to be what is the downfall of America? God has given America Christians a few times to repent of the evils, but instead it got worse, sex is the main point of interests when thinking about sins instead of what are you going to do when do it will feel like Jesus forsook you. Yes very soon the TWO Witnesses will shut down this thing what makes you FEEL saved. They do not take your salvation away just the FEELING of it. Your faith should kick in and take over and you will re-engage feeling saved. But the problem is too much conditioning in so many lies about so many things that you will take too long to re-engage your connection to Jesus. This can be too late. You will not expect what is coming partly because your idea of commitment is sexual. When it is actual commitment to faith that God rose Jesus on the 3^rd day. Obedience is believing the works that God did in sending his only Son to die for you instead of you dying for your own sins. Obedience is not obeying Moses’ law.

you and those who are struggling with such a hard thing to accept and give up. 

“Struggling”? Again, this is a homophobic cop out based on wishing all gays were struggling with being gay. Where did you get this notion? The hard thing is trying to explain the simple thing the a gay couple having sex because they dated and fell in love and married each other is not the same a gang rape or orgies or prostitution. This is extremely hard to do. No matter how detailed a verse is about gang rape you still see all were males so that means gay is sin. The fact that the Hebrew word there for all the people means male and female of all ages still can’t break through that this was a an act of attempted gang rape and the victim would not survive. The struggle is to work so very hard and never tiring to try to reach homophobes so they won’t go to their grave to wake up in Christ knowing they spent their whole lives condemning innocent people possibly losing their own salvation because this attempt at say gay is sin blinded them from the coming doom that will hit suddenly seemingly without notice as the round up of Christians begins. You cannot accept God would allow this to happen to you. But you won’t listen and so my best guess is you think it will never get to bad and everything is a conspiracy theory and not real.

And please pray for me and every one of the sort who struggles daily to put of the flesh of "this wretched man that I am."

98% of this struggling you mention is manmade lies. Accepting Jesus does not result in a life of struggling. The truth sets you free and you are free indeed. You can walk up, scared certainly in peace to that guillotine to get your head chopped off (many of the re-education/slave labor camps do have the guillotines ready to use). Struggles should be geared to seeking to find answers about the deceptions that are coming and already here. Modern versions is a main course basics 101 to the key of falling victim to the coming deceptions. You can accept antichrist if you have conditioned yourself with modern versions for a long time. “A wreck like me” makes for a good touching songs and hits home, but is the milk of the word not the meat. Wean yourself off the MILK and begin eating the meat. How can you survive the coming days when fed milk only. The enemy has planned this for 5000 years and you are not over night going to get a jump on him. Christians are for the slaughter, God is not wholesale going to protect Christians he never has and won’t until after another 1000 years. Miracle will become common, but you will not become immune to the plunder satan will bring to your household. God rarely will step in and stop soldiers from raping Christian wives and daughters. There will however be more miracles in a day than in century contained in those days. A Christian should put on the whole armor of God and be ready to do warfare in the Spirit and die both will be the norm for Christians in the coming days. Every Christians should be or already has struggled with the horrors of what real evil is namely those preparing antichrist’s kingdom. There is so much info and facts on these people that you would quickly learn what evil is instead of trying to condemn ordinary gays living ordinary lives day to day trying to make ends meet like most Christians. What did gays do to hurt you. Did that uncle rape you or make a pass at you so you went on to condemn all gays using the Bible as your club? Why not instead ring out the call to Christians who the real enemies are and understand one day it will come. There are a couple reasons it has not come already. 1994 ended the calendar (Jubilee Calendar) in which Bible times ordered. Find the sources yourself. So, we now have been in a limbo period that dating is not possible because that calendar is over. Just like the Mayan calendar ends on Dec. 21^st 2012. After that no more room for dating events. So we live in a time of certain things needs to be done if not nothing can start it because God won’t allow it. New World Order Elite just uses this time to get more ready and make it easier to take control. The real reason time is now in Limbo is because the TWO Witnesses have not met each other yet. They must meet to stop the RAIN and the TRIB begin. Antichrist can’t reveal himself until the TWO stop the RAIN. These TWO have to meet and I strongly believe needs 2.5 years getting to know each other and figure out they are the TWO and or hear God say do it. They just have not met yet. So until they met there won’t be a TRIB starting no matter what is tried to make it start. It may get really bad before they meet or it may seem not much more than we are seeing today, the gov’t doing their darnest to appear to be helping us get over this crisis when in fact they made the crisis and are using it to feed their enterprise to get a world dictator in power. Wish you wanted to ask questions about the coming days instead of condemning innocent people and your uncle.

Your statement “please pray for me” is a wishy washing attempt to make you seem like a good person meaning well and also needs help as though to rub in the nose deeper that gay is the sin gays needs prayer about and yours is just ordinary human sins so were all in the same boat. As charged by you, gays are your victims because you are not referring to them in the ordinary sinner category you put them instead in a class that their very being is sin. Huge difference. My prayer for homophobes is to get them delivered and deliverance is almost always painful because you won’t give up your love to hate gays easily so a crisis in needed so you can see clearly you are behaving in a hate gays not a love gays way. You need a reason to dig deeper and so often this means a trauma must hit you. Somestimes a homophobe that is a parent learns their son is gay meaning going to hell, soon all the help they get is he is really going to hell with no hope so the parent begins searching and begins to learn gay is not sin and so it is like their son comes back to life and it is a glorious moment for them (check out Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays). If you are not a parent you cannot have this crisis and maybe if you were a parent they would be str8 so no help that way. So you will have to have a different kind of crisis to get you to see the light. At any rate crisis’ aren’t ever fun. You might not even recover or learn your lesson and your fate may be never restored. Lots have gone this way. So this is my prayer for you:

From this day forward as you speak against gays plagues will be added on to you and your family until you learn what you are doing to the innocent ones, saith the Lord your God.